Requiem for Dale Murray II --> Done!

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RiggoDrill

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Requiem for Dale Murray II --> Done!

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 12:09 pm

For managers who want to play in a league where there is no “gaming” of the salary structure by exploiting the RP loophole -- 24-team league with no “Super-Relievers,” by Gentleman’s Agreement...

> Cap is $80M
> DH will be used
> Standard 5/10/20 transaction fees
> 20th Century “Shuffle” player set (players from 1901 through 2000)
> Name of League: Requiem for Dale Murray II


To select the player set, look for the “Shuffle the deck” list under All Time Greats 8 on the page where you create your team. Scroll through the list and select, ATG8 20th Century (1901 to 2000) set (if your team is already created, you can also reach this page by clicking the “change” link next to the player set on your team’s Roster page)

If you choose to join this league, please observe the following guidelines for usage of RP-only cards. Based upon their Endurance Rating, Relievers should not exceed the following innings pitched during a season*:











Endurance Rating Innings Not to Exceed
R1 100 IP
R2 125 IP
R3 150 IP
R4 175 IP
R5 200 IP


* Please follow both the word and "spirit" of the guidelines. For example, please do not use one RP for 150 innings in the first 80 games of the season, then drop him and pick up a free agent RP to pitch another 150 innings in the 2nd half of the season
Last edited by RiggoDrill on Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:42 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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egvrich

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 1:36 pm

Riggo,

Are those the price "caps" for each reliever type?

Rich
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RiggoDrill

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 2:49 pm

That's the maximum number of innings allowed in season for each Endurance Rating. For example Dale Murray '74 (an R4) can pitch up to 175 innings in a season. On the other hand, Joe Klink '90 (an R1) would be limited to 100 innings. Does that make sense?

The table didn't format very well. I'll try to fix that and edit the text for clarity.
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egvrich

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 3:06 pm

Just wondering ... For simplicity's sake, wouldn't it be much easier to just say no relievers over, say $4.00 million?
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RiggoDrill

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 pm

egvrich wrote:Just wondering ... For simplicity's sake, wouldn't it be much easier to just say no relievers over, say $4.00 million?

That approach has been tried. The original Requiem for Dale Murray League removed all the RP-only cards > 2.00M. You really need to go that low as there is still an enormous amount of value to leverage between 2.00 and 4.00M.

That's very limiting - it takes all of the really great RP seasons out of play and constrains how you can employ relievers. This approach is more like private SOM leagues where there are informal rules on how the cards may be used.

Those usage levels are (a) roughly consistent with how relievers have been used historically and also (b) congruent with the way the cards are priced. For example, the Dale Murray '74 card is roughly as good as the Walter Johnson or Pete Alexander cards, however, it's only about half the price. With these guidelines, managers are limited to using the card to about half as many innings as you can get from the Big Train or Pete, so it eliminates that loophole in the salary structure.
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HARDESTY

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 9:21 am

I'm glad someone is trying to address this. The league I'm in now, the 3 best teams all pitch super relievers the last 3 innings of every game. So I I typically watch the first 5 innings, and if I dont have the lead, I go to the next game.
Sadly, it has significantly sapped my enthusiasm for the game. I have never tried to enter or set up private leagues, but I guess that is how folks avoid the frustration of RP overuse.
I'm fairly new to this (17 leagues, I think, in about 3 years). Anyone know if the RP overuse a recent development or a longtime problem?
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RiggoDrill

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 3:20 pm

HARDESTY wrote:...I'm fairly new to this (17 leagues, I think, in about 3 years). Anyone know if the RP overuse a recent development or a longtime problem?

A longtime problem.

The first edition of the online game - the 2001 season - included two spectacular R2 cards (Mariano Rivera & Keith Foulke) priced over 10.00M. People complained about the extremely high prices for top relievers, but whoever did the original pricing obviously understood how those cards could be used.

SOMO responded to complaints by significantly dropping salaries for top relievers in the 2002 player set. Libertarian managers responded by regularly cranking 250+ inning seasons from those R2 cards and have been (in the 20XX) game ever since.

Early editions of ATG included far fewer top reliever cards, so for a long time, this was not an issue. In recent years, however, the proliferation of top reliever cards in the ATG game has changed that calculus. Managers have learned that top RP cards with R3 & R4 endurance ratings can crank out 350+ quality innings, frequently yielding 30-win seasons from the bullpen.

Whether or not you like those aesthetics is a personal judgment. That said, from a salary standpoint, those cards are worth between 15.00 and 18.00M when used that way, thus breaking the salary structure which underlies the competitiveness of the game.

Many people - myself included - have quit the game (at least for a time) in frustration. In particular, new players - who are much less likely to participate in private leagues - will be watching experienced managers beat up on them using this seemingly absurd strategy. IMO, that's a lousy way to sell the game to newbies.

Over the years, SOM has added a lot of great enhancements to the online game, but those are all window dressing compared to this MASSIVE gap. As a business decision, I would guess the failure to address this issue - for the last 18 years - has cost SOM a lot of money.
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stevea47

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 7:17 pm

Has limiting R3, R4, and R5 relievers to a cap of $2 or $2.5 million been tried?
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rburgh

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 10:52 pm

There's an old saying - if you can't lick them, join them.
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Hittmens

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Re: New League: Requiem for Dale Murray II

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 9:35 am

I think the numers are reasonable. I have used Murray and others and have never used the super reliever strategy. Used on a normal staff with normal settings he will give you around 200 innnings. With a few tweaks you can get him to under 175 and he can still be valuable. However to use Murray and keep him under 175 innings it would help if the cap was a little higher maybe 90 or 100.
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