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Question for the board

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:13 pm
by Corky
Has the fact that wild card winners receive the same amount of bonus points as division winners been discussed? I apologize if it has but it seems kind of odd to me. Thoughts?

Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:47 pm
by Mr Baseball World never has. We might just want to kick that one around before next year. Thank you.

Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:24 am
by mighty moose
This doesnt concern me. For example, sometimes the wild card winner WINS MORE GAMES than a division winner. Right now we are awarding 5 points for winning either the division or being a wild card. In effect, for MAKING THE PLAYOFFS. Then 5 more points for advancing to the World Series, then 10 more for WINNING the World Series.

It only concerns YOU because you were a Division Winner in Event 1.

Speaking of Event 1, I will tell you that one thing that I am looking into is the apparent inequity of the 24 team event. I am asking SOM (in effect, Bernie) how difficult it is going to be to modify the automated processes that award points to give the 5 points for making EACH ROUND in the 24-team event. - 5 points for making it to the first round, 5 points for advancing to the semi-finals, 5 points for advancing to the Finals and 10 points for winning the World Series.

In THIS scenario, Ranger Joe who beat you in the Quarterfinals gets 5 more points for advancing to the Semi's. As it stands, he got the same number of playoff points you did - 5. Now to me, THAT is an inequity.

I will keep you all informed.


Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:18 pm
by Corky about being touchy. :roll:

I noticed this in the scoring system when I checked to see how many points I would receive for winning my division, I hadn't noticed it before then. But thanks for assuming this was the "only reason" it concerned me.

As I said initially I apologize if it had been discussed already....basically meaning if it did I was fine with the outcome. I guess that was interpreted correctly.

Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:38 pm
by mighty moose
My point was just that someone who winds up with the Wild Card is no less deserving of his 5 points. And what if someone wins the wild card with 91 wins but his division mate wins the division with 98 wins. Now in the WEAK division someone wins his division with oh say 80 wins (80-82 - it's happened)

Check out this World Series Winner at 80-82 from last years Barnstormers. mjruth lost 8 of his last 10 games, the last 4 in a row, -67 run differential and he came back to win the World Series in this league.

In your scenario Wild Card gets 5 points, and Division Winners gets - well - MORE. (Your proposal) So Division winner at 80 games won gets more points than Wild Card winner with 91 wins. See why this isn't a fair idea ?

If you wish to throw this proposal to the board for a vote, I can certainly put it up for a discussion and a vote. I already know how I would be voting. However, I can be overruled by a majority of 3 votes out of the other 4 board members. So not everything is carved in stone.

And yes I noticed that what you were suggesting would directly affect you. Who wouldn't ? Even if the board overruled me TODAY and put your proposal in place, we wouldnt make a rule change that was retroactive. Even for the possible 24 team additional points, this would be for GOING FORWARD, not giving additional points for the finished Event #1.


Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:09 am
by Corky
Moose...again, I can care less about my team from event 1. I'm not asking for anything retroactive as that wasn't my intention. I simply saw something that I considered odd in the scoring system and brought it to attention.

I understand what your saying about certain situations where wild card teams have more wins than division winners...I get that. But then why have divisions at all? Lets line up the teams 1-12, no divisions and the top 4 advance to the playoffs. I know that sounds crazy but it's basically what your saying would be fairest. As with any sport division winners should be rewarded like it or not, or why have them at all?

Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:36 am
by mighty moose
Well, we are living in SOM's world and to some extent - MLB's as well. SOM does it this way to mimic as much as possible, baseball in the real world.

MLB 2012 standings - Detroit gets in the playoffs with 88 wins. Tampa Bay has 90 and does not go to the playoffs. LA Angels has 89 wins and does not go to the playoffs.

So if you really want to change who gets into the playoffs, from mlb to SOM to Barnstormers, you would have a tough road ahead of you.

This will get on the agenda placed in front of the board for discussion when we next meet, and a summary will get posted.

Listen, I do appreciate discussions in here from time to time. I sometimes feel that this section and the general Barnstormers population don't vocalize enough about what they want to see happen with tweaking the tournament and it's rules. So thank you for taking the time. We need more of these threads. :D

Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:47 am
by labratory
The rules for 2013 are set and finalized and everyone agrees. I have no teams that are affected so I'm not lobbying for points. As an unaffected, neutral observer, I am giving my opinion as it will relate to the 2014 Barnstormers league.

Barnstormers is a league that appeals to participants who appreciate the long history of baseball. For most of that history, organized baseball rewarded the winner of each league with an invitation to the World Series. Second place teams went home saying "wait 'til next year". The wild card is a modern invention rooted in the desire of MLB owners and the players union to increase fan interest in September and ultimately to produce more revenue.

I've played the 12 team SOM format for many years and like it the way it is. However, I think Corky is philosophically correct that the Barnstormers 2014 reward for winning a division should be greater than the reward for being a wild card. It aligns better with the experience of most of the players that the Barnstormers database is derived from. My non-vote is zero points for simply finishing as a wild card. Of course, a wild card team that wins a playoff series or championship would get the normal points.

Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:00 pm
by mighty moose
I appreciate everyones view on this or any other topic. I assure you I will put this up for a discussion with the board and will bring you back their answers. This will be a topic for the 2014 version tour.

I got a response back from SOM that they CAN enable the extra points for a 24-team event but again, this will not be retroactive. However for next year, for one or more 24 team events, points for qualifying for the first round, points for qualifying for the semi-final round, points for making it to the WS, and points for winning the WS. You notice I only say "points" because the amount of points would be the question here. So it's a no brainer to say to go ahead enabling "points" for all rounds in a 24-team event, but now we will need to also discuss how many points for the 24-team AND the 12-team format for 2014.

Stay tuned.


Re: Question for the board

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:20 pm
by eveldrive
I just offer this for consideration since this happened to me in this year's 1st event 24 team league. I won a wild card berth and then won three games in the quarter-finals to advance to the semi-finals. In that best of seven series I won another three games to push the series to 7 games but lost the last game. So in total I won 6 play-off games. If these were regular season games I would have earned 6 points; as it was I got just 5 points, which was for winning the wild card, same as if didn't win any playoff games.

Would it make sense in 24 team leagues not to award 5 points to wild card teams, but only to division champs? Winning a wild card enables a team to advance to the playoffs and win more games :idea: . Winning playoff games would continue to earn a point per win. In my case I would have earned 6 points, the teams advancing to the finals would each earn 7 points (3 for quarter-finals; 4 for semi-finals) , and the champ would win another 4 (for a total of 11 playoff points). :idea: