Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

Moderator: Palmtana

  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Backfire

  • Posts: 178
  • Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 7:20 pm

Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostMon Dec 19, 2022 1:07 am

Hal seems to love to sit my best relievers out of as many games as possible and use them as seldom as possible, so much so that by the end of the season they've barely pitched. He seems to heavily over-prioritize using cheaper relievers. What can be done about this? I am not using middleman, setup, etc and don't always like to. Is that the only way?
Offline

MaxPower

  • Posts: 732
  • Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:12 am

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostMon Dec 19, 2022 3:39 am

It's truly deranged. If you leave him to his own devices he will use the worst relievers the most and the best relievers the least. You have to assign a fat role to your good relievers to get them to be used, while also limiting when the worst relievers can be used. Give the good ones Middle Man and/or Behind and Late, those cover a lot of situations where they wouldn't otherwise get used. Set the bad ones to avoid their weak side and possibly also quick hook and don't enter before 8th/7th at low caps. If you have one relief ace you can also set him to not be relieved until he's fatigued. All of this nonsense is why it's best to go with Four Aces and minimize the bullpen in the first place.
Offline

goffchile

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:17 pm

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostMon Dec 19, 2022 7:49 pm

Unfortunately, there is not a great answer to your question. The most common strategy is to do what Maxpower said--just try to avoid the situation altogether. That can work but it can blow up too for obvious reasons.

I typically don't do that--which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. A few things I have learned

Hal tends to view the roles as restrictive. For example, you may assign your best reliever as the closer because you would assume that your best reliever should be your closer but you may also want your best reliever to be used in situations where you would want your best reliever. Hal is going to hold onto your best reliever for those closer situations to the exclusion of others. The same is true for just about any role.

Another factor which Hal seems to weigh heavily is fatigue. Unfortunately, due to the less than transparent fatigue system, this means that Hal will pass over certain relievers in favor of others due to recent usage. This has the secondary effect of sometimes using relievers in less than desirable situations so as to avoid the "fatigued" pitcher--ironically, this can contribute to a more fatigued relief corps which can snowball into future games. FYI Hal loves R4 and R5 relievers. (side note--I love it when I see opponents which all R1/R2 relievers because you can guarantee fatigue issues).

If you aren't going to use the 4 studs and the rest duds strategy I recommend the following:

Don't place any relievers on your roster you don't want to be used (you can't hide from Hal-they need not be expensive as there are decent cheap options out there)
Make sure Hal has choices (5-6 relievers)
allocate 3-4 spots for specialists (2 hard r, 1 hard l) (there are some decent cheap options)
Have 2 spots to eat up the rest of the innings (having at least one guy that is an R4+ is helpful)

Don't worry about assigning a closer or saves as a stat--it is dumb anyway.
Offline

Backfire

  • Posts: 178
  • Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 7:20 pm

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostTue Dec 20, 2022 1:06 am

Thanks, guys. 18 games in and my star reliever pitched 7 innings in for an experimental team with extremely weak starters. Off to a 7-11 start with a poor differential, I feel some of these games would likely have been won if my reliever actually got used. I set him to middleman and behind/late and removed my closers (a righty and lefty specialist). I do wish the bullpen roles were more intuitive and logical. A lot of the time Hal does precisely the opposite of what I want. And I do agree that the 4 studs is optimal but I want to explore alternatives a bit too.
Offline

FrankieT

  • Posts: 1312
  • Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:07 am
  • Location: Usually Somewhere Else

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostTue Dec 20, 2022 2:37 am

I have not had those issues with reliever choices since I stopped specifying roles. Haven't played in a little while, but using that strategy I have mostly been pleased for almost 2 years. Very little reliever heartburn. In fact, HAL has even properly used reverse lefties and righties when given full latitude.

I agree with most of goffchile's points from my own experience.

But I may have some bias because of how I construct my teams. It may be noted that TLD was adamant about using adequate relievers and he was clearly a top manager consistently.
Don't have anything bulletproof, but along the lines of goffchile's post...

Never put relievers on your staff you don't want used unless you are strictly using starter aces and minimizing bullpen (which is a boring but effective strategy since BP v3).
Do put 5-6 relievers on your staff and ensure the price delta from high to low is not high. What is high. I dunno--it is a feel. For instance, a 5M reliever with 1m guys is a high price delta.
A mopup guy is one of the most important roles IMO--it gives HAL decision space so he doesn't save people. It is the only role I ever specify.

So, if you want examples using an 80M basis:
Ex1: 1 hard righty (<1M), 1 hard-ish righty (<1M), 1 hard lefty (<1M), 1 hard-ish lefty(<1M), 1 reverse lefty(1M), 1 reverse righty (1M).
Ex2: 2 hard R, 2 hard L, an anchor reliever and a mopup. The hard guys s/b somewhat cheap <1M, with avoids for the weak side and probably quick hook. The anchor s/b 2-3M and good to both sides (depending on park, yadda yadda) and the mopup should be like a 1M even to reverse handed type. Set the anchor for highest leverage situations--ie do not use before x inning, slow hook, and no avoids, and at least an R2.

If letting HAL make the calls, you have to give the AI max selections, else the primitive business rules paralyze HAL's options and give "deranged" results and morning heartburn.

I have been pretty happy with HAL's bullpen management when I use a bullpen. There are threads on it and I still do it this way when using a bullpen--but it still is a narrower success margin than just stud starters and minimal relievers. Along with heavy platoons, it is a reason the game became pretty stale for me.

Note it is much more challenging if you are using hard righties and are in a lefty park etc. It requires more care than using stud starters, which is generally more effective and simpler.
Offline

goffchile

  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:17 pm

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostTue Dec 20, 2022 11:34 am

I agree with Frankie's "less is more" approach with HAL. If you try to micromanage him, he reacts poorly.

Here is a link to a team I recently had with what I would count as a "successful bullpen"-- the pen was heavily used (Drago was the least used but still had over 60 appearances), had a winning record and a sub 4 ERA. Most expensive reliever cost $2.

https://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1699703

My only settings were in this order
1. Mcgaffican lefty specialist
2. Pina righty specialist
3. Drago righty specialist.
Offline

labratory

  • Posts: 422
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:33 am

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostTue Dec 20, 2022 6:24 pm

MaxPower wrote: All of this nonsense is why it's best to go with Four Aces and minimize the bullpen in the first place.

Max is just bluffing.
In the finals he plans to spend $5 mil on starters and $25 mil on stud relief pitchers so it doesn't matter which RP HAL chooses.
(is the Jedi mind trick working?)
Offline

MaxPower

  • Posts: 732
  • Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:12 am

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostTue Dec 20, 2022 8:25 pm

games within the game :lol:
Offline

Hack Wilson

  • Posts: 1078
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:16 pm

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostTue Dec 20, 2022 10:23 pm

Lots of good advice from the fellas above. A couple strategies can work, depending on ballpark.

Four Aces with a very minimal bullpen at 80M: https://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1702342
Stud Starters under *9 with a bullpen (yet no one over 1.69M) at 100M: https://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1678167

Even with Stud Starters, you can turn them on FO for the best ones, and with a basic bullpen to cover the rest, it will suffice. Both of the teams above are DH, which I prefer. In the old school days of reality, I prefer pitchers hitting, but in SOM, i like the DH options for reasons of platooning, and just another batter(s) to look at in terms of stats. Also subtracts the pinchhitter choice by Hal in the Four Aces strategy. Don't want Hal to think too much!
Offline

FrankieT

  • Posts: 1312
  • Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:07 am
  • Location: Usually Somewhere Else

Re: Explain Hal's Reliever Methodology to Me!

PostWed Dec 21, 2022 12:54 am

Ha.
OBTW--to the OP, I am not disparaging the "Four Aces" approach at all--it is reliably effective and mostly efficient. When I say "boring" I mean as in reliable--steadfast--predictable.

I mean, doesn't matter what anyone thinks about it--just look at the results. It is not a debate. But your Q was about HAL's RDS. Reliever derangement syndrome.

But on the mostly efficient part...it is just that my own OCD gives me a tick when I see a 5th starter who is a wasted .50. I'd rather spend .75 to 1.00 on an S/R and make it one of my hard-sided relievers or maybe even my mop up as a reverso.

N.B. To the OP. Welcome back to the land of SOM discussion. Much less tiring than chasing gremlins.
Next

Return to Strat-O-Matic Baseball: All-Time Greats

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hound, Main Line Expos and 8 guests