Ballpark Effects

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Salty

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostFri May 27, 2022 10:12 pm

MaxPower wrote:.

As a new player, I was curious about how many runs per game were scored on average at various caps. By your logic, it would be unethical for me to examine any pre-existing league to determine the answer to that question. That is obviously stupid and wrong, to the point where I doubt even you believe it. But that is the argument you are making, so I have no choice but to believe you are either making it in bad faith or just don't understand what scraping entails. Or both. I'm not sure which it is and don't particularly care. nev I'm pretty sure is just confused.


The fact that you think it is 'Stupid and Wrong' for you not to have access to data from every completed league that you took no part in is absolutely beyond absurd.
IF SoM wanted to make said data available to EVERYONE then it WOULD and SHOULD be done in an overt way- OBVIOUSLY.

Its equally obvious that its an unethical practice and not in the spirit of the game.

One doesn't have to know exactly how you use said data or what data you are specifically getting to understand that.


unfortunately, like most unethical behavior, it takes a minute for everyone to catch up to recognizing it for what it is- b
JUST LIKE THE FIRST ROIDS USERS
or The FIRST SIGN STEALERS
OR the FIRST PITCHERS TO USE OBJECTS TO SCUFF THE BALL etc. etc. etc.
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djmacb

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostFri May 27, 2022 11:03 pm

Salty wrote:
MaxPower wrote:.

As a new player, I was curious about how many runs per game were scored on average at various caps. By your logic, it would be unethical for me to examine any pre-existing league to determine the answer to that question. That is obviously stupid and wrong, to the point where I doubt even you believe it. But that is the argument you are making, so I have no choice but to believe you are either making it in bad faith or just don't understand what scraping entails. Or both. I'm not sure which it is and don't particularly care. nev I'm pretty sure is just confused.


The fact that you think it is 'Stupid and Wrong' for you not to have access to data from every completed league that you took no part in is absolutely beyond absurd.
IF SoM wanted to make said data available to EVERYONE then it WOULD and SHOULD be done in an overt way- OBVIOUSLY.

Its equally obvious that its an unethical practice and not in the spirit of the game.

One doesn't have to know exactly how you use said data or what data you are specifically getting to understand that.


unfortunately, like most unethical behavior, it takes a minute for everyone to catch up to recognizing it for what it is- b
JUST LIKE THE FIRST ROIDS USERS
or The FIRST SIGN STEALERS
OR the FIRST PITCHERS TO USE OBJECTS TO SCUFF THE BALL etc. etc. etc.

Salty, are you OK? Max is spot on about "increasingly deranged posts." We'd hate for you to have a stoke about an exchange on a Internet board.
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Salty

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostFri May 27, 2022 11:51 pm

djmacb wrote:
Salty wrote:
MaxPower wrote:.

As a new player, I was curious about how many runs per game were scored on average at various caps. By your logic, it would be unethical for me to examine any pre-existing league to determine the answer to that question. That is obviously stupid and wrong, to the point where I doubt even you believe it. But that is the argument you are making, so I have no choice but to believe you are either making it in bad faith or just don't understand what scraping entails. Or both. I'm not sure which it is and don't particularly care. nev I'm pretty sure is just confused.


The fact that you think it is 'Stupid and Wrong' for you not to have access to data from every completed league that you took no part in is absolutely beyond absurd.
IF SoM wanted to make said data available to EVERYONE then it WOULD and SHOULD be done in an overt way- OBVIOUSLY.

Its equally obvious that its an unethical practice and not in the spirit of the game.





One doesn't have to know exactly how you use said data or what data you are specifically getting to understand that.


unfortunately, like most unethical behavior, it takes a minute for everyone to catch up to recognizing it for what it is- b
JUST LIKE THE FIRST ROIDS USERS
or The FIRST SIGN STEALERS
OR the FIRST PITCHERS TO USE OBJECTS TO SCUFF THE BALL etc. etc. etc.

Salty, are you OK? Max is spot on about "increasingly deranged posts." We'd hate for you to have a stoke about an exchange on a Internet board.


What part of what Ive said seems 'deranged' to you?
This is fairly clear cut to me.
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MaxPower

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostFri May 27, 2022 11:57 pm

Salty wrote:IF SoM wanted to make said data available to EVERYONE then it WOULD and SHOULD be done in an overt way- OBVIOUSLY.

Here is a page maintained by SOM with links to dozens of leagues and hundreds of teams: https://365.strat-o-matic.com/tournament/43

It is your contention that it would be unethical for me to examine any of those leagues' statistics unless I had personally participated in those leagues? That is stupid and wrong, obviously so.
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Salty

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostSat May 28, 2022 12:01 am

MaxPower wrote:
Salty wrote:IF SoM wanted to make said data available to EVERYONE then it WOULD and SHOULD be done in an overt way- OBVIOUSLY.

Here is a page maintained by SOM with links to dozens of leagues and hundreds of teams: https://365.strat-o-matic.com/tournament/43

It is your contention that it would be unethical for me to examine any of those leagues' statistics unless I had personally participated in those leagues? That is stupid and wrong, obviously so.



You are constructing the obvious strawman here.
If SOM has linked THOSE specific leagues bc they were part of a public event then by all means- do your thing.

HOWEVER, thats not what we are talking about now, is it?
Its pretty amazing that when a person want to do the unethical thing they will try and find all sorts of justifications to try and obfuscate whats actually 'obvious and stupid'
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Salty

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostSat May 28, 2022 12:14 am

Why not just get the computer game and see if you can figure out how the code works?

Everyone can get a copy of it so we all have equal access to the data therein right?
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MaxPower

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostSat May 28, 2022 12:15 am

So examining data from Barnstormer leagues is ethical. I guess it's nice that we finally agree on something.

But examining data from other leagues is very very bad. That's your position? Okay, I guess. I don't agree that there's any meaningful distinction, and I imagine it's not a position that you sincerely hold but rather just one you've been backed into rhetorically. But at least we've finally drilled down to something resembling a concrete objection. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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MaxPower

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostSat May 28, 2022 1:33 am

Salty wrote:Why not just get the computer game and see if you can figure out how the code works?

Everyone can get a copy of it so we all have equal access to the data therein right?

So thinking about this post...is this whole agita about not having access to my data? You could've just asked for it man. Here, I've posted my entire database: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=651511 But you might want to be careful because some of those are non-Barnstormers leagues, and we know you have a very principled objection to examining data from non-Barnstormer leagues, so definitely avert your eyes from those.
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Salty

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostSat May 28, 2022 10:11 am

MaxPower wrote:
Salty wrote:Why not just get the computer game and see if you can figure out how the code works?

Everyone can get a copy of it so we all have equal access to the data therein right?

So thinking about this post...is this whole agita about not having access to my data? You could've just asked for it man. Here, I've posted my entire database: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=651511 But you might want to be careful because some of those are non-Barnstormers leagues, and we know you have a very principled objection to examining data from non-Barnstormer leagues, so definitely avert your eyes from those.


1. If SoM intended for everyone to be able to view results from every league, that should
be either explicitly permissable, or not.
2. If the intention was for you to share your data, that would have been stated.
3. While this is about SoM in particular- there are certainly a lot of connections to some people now
simply assuming that there should be no barriers on what is information/data is ethically acceptable to just go and take.
I suppose if the logic is 'big companies do this all the time' ergo- not a big deal if everyone does it.

In all honesty for this last one- its a can of worms.
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MaxPower

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Re: Ballpark Effects

PostSat May 28, 2022 10:26 am

Salty wrote:1. If SoM intended for everyone to be able to view results from every league, that should
be either explicitly permissable, or not.

I would argue that SOM does in fact intend for everyone to be able to view results from every league, as evidenced by their allowing everyone to view results from every league.
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