thoughts on Pitchers with

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scorehouse

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thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSat May 23, 2020 3:14 pm

with very high +hold ratings. 5+ and above. anyone know how much an extremely high hold rating figures into price calculation? i know Brian Harvey's new price skyrocketed and he's a +9
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RotationsGeek

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSat May 23, 2020 3:44 pm

I'm too new to this to give a reasonable response,but...

...in my very short experience I've decided to almost exclusively use pitchers, both SP & RP, with MINUS hold numbers.

good idea??
bad idea??
veterans??
“I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault.”
(Ty Cobb)
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honestiago

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSat May 23, 2020 7:05 pm

I have no data to back anything up, but:

*Anything minus figures into run prevention. You couple great hold with great C arm, no one runs. I do not notice a a ton of teams going with max SB teams, though. The OF arms, esp CF, then, figure in much more to prevent advancing extra bases, and so are helpful against the many more teams I see employing a "team .300" batting avg strategy.

*Many teams go with power, specifically HR power, which nullifies the great hold. On the other hand, a +9 makes average base stealers really good, so it adds another weapon to a bomber team's arsenal. However, it is my bet that bomber teams don't set their guys to steal, so it's probably moot.

*The best bet is to keep runners from getting on in the first place. So, a high + hold wouldn't stop me from using a pitcher who otherwise keeps runners off base. Fewer BR's means fewer 3-run bombs, among other things.

Now, I have built staffs with hold in mind, just because I build weird teams sometimes. I've had 4-man staffs where the lowest hold was a -5 among SP's. If nothing else, it allows me to use a catcher with a + arm, but a big bat.

But, not data, sorry. If it's any help, I'm using Harvey's +9 in a league right now. In 21 appearances, there have been no SB attempts against him. My platoon catchers are 0 and -1, so it isn't like the opponents couldn't run if they wanted to. I think many managers employ conservative SB strategies (I do, save for selected players), since the SB, when unsuccessful gives an out, plus removes a baserunner. Teams I've used that have employed successful SB strategies rely on singles and massive amounts of SB attempts, up and down the lineup. The SB essentially makes singles into doubles. But I've had to dedicate most of the roster to running like rabbits.

In short, I like - hold ratings as an element of run prevention (along with WHIP, strong defense [including OF arms]), but it's the least essential element I consider.
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Bunze0

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSat May 23, 2020 7:12 pm

I have used sid fernandez in the right park with success. But you have to make sure your offense is enough to offset the basestealers.
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scorehouse

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSat May 23, 2020 8:29 pm

my question has to do with pricing? i.e., does Strat underprice some pitchers because Strat puts a premium on hold rating?
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childsmwc

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSat May 23, 2020 10:43 pm

This is just a rough estimate but I would say there is probably about a $500k spread between the best hold ratings and the worst hold ratings, for top end starters. So while hold rating is factored in I wouldn't say it makes up a significant component of the pricing. You can decide from there if either end of that spectrum is over/under priced.
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RotationsGeek

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSun May 24, 2020 1:55 am

I'm still of the (newbie) opinion that HOLD is very important
so if your estimate is even close I say a nice MINUS hold
rating is quite under-priced.
“I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault.”
(Ty Cobb)
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Mumford

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostSun May 24, 2020 5:22 am

My opinion is pitchers should keep runners from getting on base. I worry more about RP hold ratings.
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nels52

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostWed May 27, 2020 2:44 pm

After using Randy for years and watching him pitch in the '95 ALCS last night----keep runners off base of low OB is #1 for pitchers. When they do get a rare/random respite on their card, it needs to be an out. Randy Johnson '01 is King and is a rare Ace that didn't see a big price increase in ATG8--9. His newer '95 card did, but the classic '01 may be more primed than ever.

+1 hold is not too much to worry about. I'll pair that with a 0 arm like Chief Zimmer and worry----but only when a non-Randy is pitching. I like lefys alot so that may help a little but to answer the newer players musings, i don't think Hold matters that much but Scorehouse brings up a good point----I've never used a Mike Scott etc.

Although, looking at the FA list of pitchers (unfortunately can't search for BAD hold hahaha)
-Guy Hecker was incredible in ATG8. He has a +5 Hold, gained $1mil plus in salary
-Lincecum is one of my deep-cuts faves. +3Hold. He's quite excellent at a fair discount and lost another $.06 :)
-Hideo Nomo is a volatile card that is elite in certain circumstances? Terrible Hold (+4), #s and WP ratings (20!!!)
~'95 Randy is +2 and certifiably insanely good
~'99 Pedro also +2 and another Pedro with his eye on championships
-'14 Felix (+2) in ATG8 intrigued me alot

Other guys have seen play through the versions, but Hold is an excellent way to circumvent settling for a ~ catcher with a big arm. Like anything else in strat, is negotiable. Frankly, i used to game pitcher fielding more than Hold though. Bp Singles. I'll say certain -3, or -4s can be just pure relevant gravy stacked on top. Luis Tiant in ATG8 was pretty silly with -5.
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tmfw30

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Re: thoughts on Pitchers with

PostThu May 28, 2020 3:54 pm

I generally see a good hold rating as a luxury and nothing more.

It depends on your opponents - basestealing is often not much of a factor in ATG, and it generally takes a pretty skilled manager to build a winning team based on stealing a lot of bases. Now, if you have a particularly speedy division, or if egvrich is in your league and has a team packed with AA guys, it's worth giving slightly more weight to hold rating as a variable.

if your league is dominated by big hitters then hold rating is virtually irrelevant.

-matt
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