New Bullpen Problems - easy fix- won't hold breathe

Just to be clear, I want to point out that I did say the new pricing and usage seem to make everything more balanced. I realize there will never be an advanced injury option (and Ithink hitter injuries are, by and large, pretty well done, for the most part). I guess I've been lucky with pitcher injuries. Never had any that made a real difference. We'll see how the strategies for AT9 play out. I find myself using similar purchase tendencies, and may have to bite the bullet to buy more expensive RP's to achieve the same effect. Like a lot of folks, I rely on specialists, normally to augment one strong RP to bear the brunt of closing. My own closers tend to go over their real-life IP's, too, though I've never done the super reliever thing. Closest I got was a pair of RP's both exceeding 150+ IP.* If I remember right, one of them was Dibble, and I think he cleared 190. So, I've abused some arms, as well.

What I'm waiting for are people using "openers." Does the new set support that?

*I remember reading this article on modern RP usage in which the writer posited that RP's were being way underutilized, regards to IP. He posited that it made more sense to use your best relievers in high leverage situations, then let them finish. The ace RP who's pulling down 70IP could probably handle 130 innings, and be more valuable that way. It was basically supporting the usage of the "fireman" days of Fingers, Goose, early Lee Smith, etc. I would think in real life that a good closer could easily pull 100 IP, especially if you consider that the average pitcher can ably close out a game where they have a 3-run lead in the 9th. That's a save situation where you'd want to rest your top closer. Don't think we'll ever see another closer log 140 IP, a la Willie Hernandez (who, by the way, logged 100 IP the next year, and had only 1 fewer save).

I'm fine with the price increases, but I DO NOT like the way the relievers are being used at all now! I keep farting with the settings, and still HAL brings in a one sided pitcher in an undefined situation and lets him pitch to multiple batters. R1's being allowed to pitch fatigued, etc. There is no control over the pen anymore and it is total BS as far as I'm concerned.

I got into this 365 as a side thing, and while it has been fun, I have 8 keeper leagues in the Windows game and have no problem returning to doing only those!

I think I really am going to spend more on better closers. The cheapies are, by and large ineffective in the long run. I'd like to see an ERA somewhere around 4.00, but that's a long shot, with all the offense.

More control is better. Relief pitching decision making is the worst part of this great game. RPs have been priced higher, let them pitch

As I said, my data does not support that. Overall, in a static business rule algorithm where you are trying to recreate context-sensitive decisions, no way is more static control better--you get many more out-of-context decisions.

If the bullpen is used as an actual bullpen and not as the primary inning eater, the logic works fine. I posted multiple links to multiple teams that shows that quite some time ago along with the explanations from a perspective of conceptual algorithms and logic for why this would be expected.

But to each their own--I'm just saying that the new logic makes the former bullpen overuse abuses even more difficult to recreate--regardless of one's opinion on bullpen overuse.

Ok, I guess I don't really mind the changes; but STRAT , tell us what the parameters are! How can you set a pen for a series if you don't know what causes how much rest?

I'm experimenting with "max 1-2 innings" for R1's, "max 2-3 innings" for R2's and R3's. We'll see how it goes.

I currently have a pen in a $76 cap league (Cards restricted to 1930-1944) with 4 cheap RP Only relievers and 2 starter/relievers who are not in my rotation.

Bullpen:
Flores 1944 S/R $3.34
Durham 1931 S/R $2.45

Fleming 1944 $.91
Frankhouse 1932 $.85
Benton 1940 $.65
Webber 1943 $.63

All fully rested.

No roles assigned.

Hal will totally avoid the two S/R and ONLY pitch the 4 scrub RP Only cards.

You better give those two S/R roles or they ain’t pitching.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not struggling at all with the new bullpen, I am kicking ass

Only because your ducking my leagues

More control is better. Relief pitching decision making is the worst part of this great game. RPs have been priced higher, let them pitch

As I said, my data does not support that. Overall, in a static business rule algorithm where you are trying to recreate context-sensitive decisions, no way is more static control better--you get many more out-of-context decisions.
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Frankie T - you talk about data....how many data points do you have to support your affirmation?

1 - I can't find you on the All Time Managers list - so I am guessing you have less than 200 games of ATG 8 experience? Maybe less than 100 games of ATG 8 to compare to? Maybe even LESS than 100 ATG 8 teams???

2 - ATG9 has been out less than 7 weeks...how many ATG9 leagues do you have active data on? 3 teams? 5 teams?
7 teams?

Let me share my data points:
1 - 716 ATG 8 leagues I believe only DGF has played in more ATG 8 leagues than me.

2 - I have 18 active ATG 9 leagues....7 of those are active 80 million no dh leagues and the other 11 are caps between $125 and $200 million + a couple more that will start in the next couple of days.

3 - My limited data thus far (18 leagues) says otherwise. I have far less control in the pen than I had previously....I too (similar to STEVE F) am trying many methods to try and get a handle on how the new pen logic is working and how to use it to get my relievers to perform reasonably.....I am very frustrated...but I will continue to tinker and experiment.

We all have differing experiences and opinions....however....Frankie, if you are going to bring science and data in to support your opinions try and have ENOUGH data and quantify and qualify it for us to prove ATG9 bullpen logic is BETTER than ATG8 bullpen logic.

We are paying 30% to 40% more for the quality RPs in ATG9, therefore, let them pitch with managerial control. If you have substantial ATG9 data to share with us that shows otherwise, please do so in order to substantiate your opinion.

We are paying 30% to 40% more for the quality RPs in ATG9, therefore, let them pitch with managerial control. If you have substantial ATG9 data to share with us that shows otherwise, please do so in order to substantiate your opinion.

I think they pretty much left the R1’s alone ( for the most part ). I’m not thrilled with the limitations but I’ll certainly live with this over using Bruce Sutter in every single setting.

Even though I’ve been playing since ATG 1, I definitely defer to your data because I don’t plays as many lower caps as you ( or leagues in general). ....and my strategy for NO DH is to draft 5 and 8 Starters so they stay in LOL