ATG Poll #5- Additional Players

As of 9 am eastern, F. Alou, O. Vizquel and H. Clift are all on the bubble with 14 votes each, a couple of my votes were wasted for Stirnweiss and Vernon, both of whom I thought would make great additions. To many modern guys going in for my taste this time, but that's ok, still plenty to choose from, and I will probably use them all. Really happy to see "ol hoss" get a good card. I know Andy will say that his career was a part of baseball that should not be included in with modern players, but I play vintage ball in the Tennessee Vintage Base Ball Assosiation and I love the old guys from the infancy of this sport.

Mike

I don't think enough people have voted for Sandy Koufax yet... smh

As of 9 am eastern, F. Alou, O. Vizquel and H. Clift are all on the bubble with 14 votes each, a couple of my votes were wasted for Stirnweiss and Vernon, both of whom I thought would make great additions. To many modern guys going in for my taste this time, but that's ok, still plenty to choose from, and I will probably use them all. Really happy to see "ol hoss" get a good card. I know Andy will say that his career was a part of baseball that should not be included in with modern players, but I play vintage ball in the Tennessee Vintage Base Ball Assosiation and I love the old guys from the infancy of this sport.

Mike

I watched some vintage baseball at Andrew Jackson's Hermitage in Nashville over a weekend this summer, and it was thoroughly interesting. The uniforms, the slang and manner of speaking from that era, the more relaxed pace of the game were all great both from a historical aspect and from an entertainment aspect. However, in the batter/pitcher battle that baseball is at its roots, compared to facing modern MLB pitchers, it is Slow Pitch Softball (And I was pretty good at Slow Pitch Softball back in the day. Where's my card? ).
That's my only problem with adding those cards.
I think I sent you a message about my experience watching that last summer, mike. It was very entertaining.

I counted 21 players with 15 or more votes. Who gets bumped from the guys tied at 15??

I THINK I remember a tie before, and in that instance they added 21. We could stop voting now and get 21 cards, if that is how I remember it.

I watched some vintage baseball at Andrew Jackson's Hermitage in Nashville over a weekend this summer, and it was thoroughly interesting. The uniforms, the slang and manner of speaking from that era, the more relaxed pace of the game were all great both from a historical aspect and from an entertainment aspect. However, in the batter/pitcher battle that baseball is at its roots, compared to facing modern MLB pitchers, it is Slow Pitch Softball (And I was pretty good at Slow Pitch Softball back in the day. Where's my card? ). 

I agree that the pitching back then was closer to slow pitch softball, but there were changes and gamesmanship by the time Radbourn pitched. They had eliminated the calling for pitches, and all restrictions on the delivery (overhand vs. sidearm vs. underhand) were removed in 1884. Yes the distance to the plate was not increased until 1894, but that caused a crazy explosion in Batting averages. We, today, play 1864 rules in the vintage game (all 33 of 'em ) the rules by 1884 were much closer to todays game. Also the equipment was primitive to say the least, but, how much would most guys even know about "sliding billy" Hamilton or Candy Cummings or Old Hoss without their strat card causing us to research them. And it's easy enough to exclude them in franchise leagues.

Mike

My critique on the voting

1B - Cunningham 143 OPS+, batting title, MVP-13, 16 votes
Vernon 150 OPS+, batting title, MVP-3, 11 votes
Easter 122 OPS+, RF eligible, 19 votes

New players triumph over better cards for existing players.

2B - Loretta 138 OPS+, mvp-9, 21 votes
Gehringer 142 OPS+, MVP-4, 21 votes
Gordon 154 OPS+, MVP-1, 16 votes
Durham 105 OPS+, 12 votes
Stirnweiss 145 OPS+, 8 votes
Terwilleger 90 OPS+, 5 votes, interesting backstory I suppose since he had not played in either of the 2 previous years.

Durham had (much) better seasons, someone should nominate one of those years in the future. Happy to get Loretta and Gordon, Gehringer probably indistinguishable from the 1934 card that we have unless somebody knows something about the card.

3B - Kell 123 OPS+, MVP-4, bulletproof, 26 votes
Evans 156 OPS+, MVP-18, 41 HR, 24 votes
Clift 144 OPS+, MVP-18, 34 HR, 16 votes
Lowell 124 OPS+, 7 votes
Pendleton 124 OPS+, 6 votes

Voters did right, I think.

C - Lopez 169 OPS+, 32 votes
Alomar 128 OPS+, 17 votes
Hundley 140 OPS+, 41 HR, 8 votes
White 148 OPS+, 7 votes

Lopez, Alomar deserving, Hundley also needs to be in, White 1877 needs to be nominated next time.

CF - Burks 149 OPS+, 40 HR, 22 votes
Alou 142 OPS+, 31 HR, MVP-5, 16 votes
Ichiro 122 OPS+, .351 BA, 37 SB, full-time CF, 10 votes

Burks' card will disappoint due to Coors, Alou also (this was still Fulton). This Ichiro card would be interesting, hope it gets in soon.

OF - Staub 166 OPS+, 29 HR, 24 votes
Falk 135 OPS+, MVP-12, 10 votes
Sosa 203 OPS+, MVP-2, 64 HR, 9 votes

I would never have guessed that Sammy wouldn't have a shot at getting in. Falk has value to White Sox franchise guys and trivia geeks (he replaced Shoeless Joe in LF). Staub will be welcome in RF.

SP Koufax 41 votes, Verlander 25 votes, Hershiser 20 votes, Radbourn 16 votes.

All should have $200 MM league worthy cards. Radbourn clearly better than the card we have now, and a .922 WHIP in that era was outstanding. Still, until I see the card I am not sure we needed this one. Ellsworth at a 167 ERA+ is a clear omission.

SS - Tejada 131 OPS+, MVP-4, 34 HR 21 votes
Sewell 146 OPS+, .456 OBP, 18 votes
Vizquel 111 OPS+, .333 BA, 16 votes
Cabrera 92 OPS+, GG, 15 votes

Sewell and Vizquel will be an interesting contrast - two high average no-power guys, one with a huge OBP and losuy glove (I expect 3e40) and the other with a lousy OBP and no power but a great glove.

UT - Zobrist 149 OPS+, 17 votes

An interesting card, eligible at all fielding positions except C.

I watched some vintage baseball at Andrew Jackson's Hermitage in Nashville over a weekend this summer, and it was thoroughly interesting. The uniforms, the slang and manner of speaking from that era, the more relaxed pace of the game were all great both from a historical aspect and from an entertainment aspect. However, in the batter/pitcher battle that baseball is at its roots, compared to facing modern MLB pitchers, it is Slow Pitch Softball (And I was pretty good at Slow Pitch Softball back in the day. Where's my card? ). 

I agree that the pitching back then was closer to slow pitch softball, but there were changes and gamesmanship by the time Radbourn pitched. They had eliminated the calling for pitches, and all restrictions on the delivery (overhand vs. sidearm vs. underhand) were removed in 1884. Yes the distance to the plate was not increased until 1894, but that caused a crazy explosion in Batting averages. We, today, play 1864 rules in the vintage game (all 33 of 'em ) the rules by 1884 were much closer to todays game. Also the equipment was primitive to say the least, but, how much would most guys even know about "sliding billy" Hamilton or Candy Cummings or Old Hoss without their strat card causing us to research them. And it's easy enough to exclude them in franchise leagues.

Mike

Not to say it wasn't an athletic endeavor, it just wasn't the modern pitcher/batter battle. When I was watching one guy hit a hard line drive back at the pitcher, who caught it against his body for an out. Really great reflexes, especially for a guy not wearing a glove.

Damn Omar Vizquel didn't get in? They already have that card in the 1999 game, why can't they add more cards at a much faster rate? I am a big defender of SOM, and they are a tiny little company, but come on man you guys can do more than five cards at a time once every few months. This is silly!

Damn Omar Vizquel didn't get in? They already have that card in the 1999 game, why can't they add more cards at a much faster rate? I am a big defender of SOM, and they are a tiny little company, but come on man you guys can do more than five cards at a time once every few months. This is silly!

YES on what this says.