Mariano Rivera

Five years from now, it will be interesting to see how overwhelming the support for Rivera's induction into the Hall of Fame will be. Without a doubt he is the best ever at his "position". If anyone "deserves" a unanimous selection, this is the guy. But we all know it won't happen because 1) There are still writers around who refuse to vote for anyone on their first ballot. "If Ruth (or any number of other players) wasn't a unanimous selection on the first ballot, nobody should be". 2) There are old-guard factions in the BBWAA that consider relief pitchers part-time role players, not deserving full recognition as Hall of Famers on a par with everyday players. 3) Yankee haters.

I feel a bit melancholy to see his fabulous career come to a close. He was head-and-shoulders above his peers, performed at a peak level far longer than anyone else, was a key member of several championship teams, played his whole career with one team, never sought the limelight, was perceived as an unselfish team player, and was a class act all around.

Rivera's legacy to the game (and to a lesser extent, Dennis Eckersley) is he significantly changed the way the game is played. His excellence has pressured all teams to designate one man as their 9th inning closer, expecting him to do what Rivera has always done. But few have been able to last in the job more than 2-3 years, and many statheads argue that closers should be considered interchangeable parts and not be paid as much or more than Rivera. But since Rivera offered something close to a guarantee of success each time he entered the game, he deserved what he was paid. Who can put a price on the peace of mind he gave his manager and the fans?

I can't say whether the changes he's brought have been "good" for baseball or not, but I do know he'll be missed.

Despite being a Red Sox fan, I have a lot of respect for Rivera.
Since, thankfully, it appears that the Yankees won't make the postseason this year, how many Postseason Saves will Rivera have amassed in his career?

hint: a very appropriate number

Ok, you made me go look it up. 42 postseason saves. You are right.

Yankee lovers will counter the yankee haters on the vote. Playing in NY will always help, not hurt, a guys chances at the hall.

Your point about some writers always refusing to vote for anyone first time around is very valid. No chance of unanimous.
Without knowing who else will be on the ballot hard to say but I am betting he will get enough first year.

As to some writers refusing to vote for relievers: Possibly valid point. But others have blazed the trail.
Goose Gossage
Bruce Sutter
Dennis Eckersley
Rollie Fingers
Hoyt Wilhelm

And this statement by Bill James...
Since 1992 the BBWAA has elected two catchers to the Hall of Fame, two first basemen, two second basemen, two left fielders, two center fielders, one DH—and four Closers. And, if Lee Smith is the standard of a Hall of Fame closer, then there are several more who will need to be inducted in the next ten years.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/bill-james-on-relievers-in-the-hall/

Not sure why Lee Smith would be the standard unless he assumes Smith will get voted in the next year or two.

Bill James goes on to explain why the closer is not deserving of HOF consideration and not that important overall. That to me is a debate for a different thread. Bottom line to me is that baseball teams and baseball professionals place a lot of emphasis on closers and not just anyone can be tossed out there. No question in my mind Rivera deserves in.

I am an anti 1 inning closer guy. I would never vote for Lee Smith and was leaning against Eck. I was ok with Gossage and Fingers as the usage was different in the 70s & 80s. But Rivera would get my vote in his first year. To be that good for that long is pretty amazing.

What if he got off to a good start as a starter instead of getting hit hard in his first few starts. Who knows what would have happened. He may have been a journey man starter for 7 years and then out of the league.

Of course as long as we want to play the what if game ......

What if Yankees had left him a starter, he developed another pitch for variety he might have won 15-20 for a couple decades and become the last of the 300 game winners.

What if the yankees had made Rivera wait until Wetteland retired and made him pitch setup.

But for me what it comes down to is they did decide he had the stuff and mental makeup for closer and committed to it. And he embraced it. And then went on to accomplish what few if any have.

I understand the logic that a great reliever is just a failed starter. But that is not always true. Sometimes a guy gets funneled to bullpen because that is where the team need was. Feliz was a starter in the minors but when he was ready for Arlington they did not feel a need for a 6th starter. So they used him in the bullpen where he was outstanding. Ogando was converted to a pitcher and first slotted in relief. But then switched to starter and made the allstar team as a starter. Then moved back to the bullpen the next year because that is where the team need was. You cannot assume just because someone is a reliever that they would fail as a starter.

And you certainly cannot judge their HOF credentials by what you imagine/estimate/guess they would have done if they spent their career as a starter. If we do then are we not obligated to also evaluate every average starter by what they might have done if moved to closer. James Shields is a nice starter but not HOF worthy. But if I think he could have been a great closer and racked up 5-600 saves is that the basis of our vote? Clearly not. Just gotta look at what actually happened and vote based on that. And on that condition he has had a historic career. That should mean HOF no-brainer.

My objection is the saves are so cheaply awarded they accumulate like pennies in a drawer. The rule stinks. In my book a save situation would be defined as a relief pitcher who comes in facing the potential tying or winning run on base or at the plate. A save for protecting a 3 run lead? -that's absurd

Five years from now, it will be interesting to see how overwhelming the support for Rivera's induction into the Hall of Fame will be. Without a doubt he is the best ever at his "position". If anyone "deserves" a unanimous selection, this is the guy. But we all know it won't happen because 1) There are still writers around who refuse to vote for anyone on their first ballot. "If Ruth (or any number of other players) wasn't a unanimous selection on the first ballot, nobody should be". 2) There are old-guard factions in the BBWAA that consider relief pitchers part-time role players, not deserving full recognition as Hall of Famers on a par with everyday players. 3) Yankee haters.

I feel a bit melancholy to see his fabulous career come to a close. He was head-and-shoulders above his peers, performed at a peak level far longer than anyone else, was a key member of several championship teams, played his whole career with one team, never sought the limelight, was perceived as an unselfish team player, and was a class act all around.

Rivera's legacy to the game (and to a lesser extent, Dennis Eckersley) is he significantly changed the way the game is played. His excellence has pressured all teams to designate one man as their 9th inning closer, expecting him to do what Rivera has always done. But few have been able to last in the job more than 2-3 years, and many statheads argue that closers should be considered interchangeable parts and not be paid as much or more than Rivera. But since Rivera offered something close to a guarantee of success each time he entered the game, he deserved what he was paid. Who can put a price on the peace of mind he gave his manager and the fans?

I can't say whether the changes he's brought have been "good" for baseball or not, but I do know he'll be missed.

VERY well said supertyphoon!! Couldn't agree with you more on Mo being missed! I know I will........and the most thing about Mo being the best ever at his job, he did it with ONE PITCH. Every hitter knew it was coming, and most failed!!

My objection is the saves are so cheaply awarded they accumulate like pennies in a drawer.

Objection noted and possibly valid to some extent. But when one guy is able to accumulate 2 or 3 times as many pannies as vast majority of his peers and more than anyone in history... I would say he qualifies as one of the best "savers" ever.

My objection is the saves are so cheaply awarded they accumulate like pennies in a drawer.

Objection noted and possibly valid to some extent. But when one guy is able to accumulate 2 or 3 times as many pannies as vast majority of his peers and more than anyone in history... I would say he qualifies as one of the best "savers" ever.

HOFer without a doubt. I would like to see a list of save pct. leaders.

Over the weekend, Rivera will likely fulfill a dream. He owns more saves than any other reliever. He has dominated October baseball like few others. Now he can indulge himself and play an inning in center field, a prospect he has floated for years. Girardi said he was “absolutely” considering the possibility.

Really? Sounds like a Constanza storyline on Seinfeld to me.