Ortiz gets HOF call, Bonds, Clemens shut out -- HOF a Joke

I completely agree. Harold Baines and Bud Selig are enshrined forever. Pete Rose and Joe Jackson are not. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens failed to get elected after 10 years on the ballot. MarK McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Manny Ramirez didn't get serious consideration, neither did Alex Rodriguez in his first year of eligibility.

The Hall of Fame is a joke

Here's a fascinating read about the long, tortured history of Hall of Fame voting. The BBWAA has failed. The veterans committees have failed. Other attempts to make things better have also failed. It is what is. A joke.

https://joeposnanski.substack.com/p/the ... -committee

I think they should remove the sportswriters from monopolizing the voting -- too many biases based on who was nice to them etc. The idea of all sportswriters and no one else (except for the Veterans committee) seems skewed.

Sadly, I say this having worked once as a sportswriter. Many egos involved in the field -- egos as big as any player, lol. If a player treated a writer badly -- as Bonds often did -- they remember that.

Suggest a revolving committee of a couple dozen luminaries of the game -- an equal mix of living HOF members, fans (yes), GMs, managers, and then I don't mind adding a sportswriters/media/broadcast types. Equal mix from these groups. Debate meetings can be scheduled for public settings. But the way it is now, the sportswriters dominate too much, and there's no debate forum or transparency, just confidential voting that leaves the process murky and without accountability. Revamp the voting process to fit this smaller yet more diverse and open committee.

I'm generally a big and open HOF type, not too restrictive. The way the voting process is now, fewer players get enough votes because the writers/media can only check a limited number of guys on their ballots. Get rid of that, too.

I understand that Bonds, Clemens, et al were kept out of the HOF because of the steroid allegations which cast a shadow on their character and sportsmanship, and for this their legacies have been tainted, and the recognition of their achievements diminished. Nonetheless I think they deserve to be in the Hall because of their accomplishments and the fact that they epitomize a particular era of the game, the Steroid era. Their plaques should describe their deeds, both good and bad. Same for Pete Rose

What bothers me is that their cheating was not punished when they were playing the game (ie ejected, suspended, or fined). The games they played counted -- no games were forfeited, statistics crossed out, standings adjusted, or revenues refunded. Aren't umpires and league officials supposed to make sure the games are played fairly? They are of course, but when the game is played in the context of a unique era, it can take time to react and change the rules. They played within the rules of the game at the time and should be recognized accordingly.

CLEMENS and BONDS and McGWIRE and SOSA and all the OTHER Baseball cheaters most certainly DID NOT play "within the rules of the game at the time"!! It was all hidden -- with innocuous nicknames, midnight visits to illicit medical unprofessionals, and so forth. The Baseball cheaters earn the same scorn as the Cycling cheaters of the same era. How did the basketball, hockey, soccer, and football players escape this same scrutiny is a much better question.
Jon

I think they should remove the sportswriters from monopolizing the voting -- too many biases based on who was nice to them etc. The idea of all sportswriters and no one else (except for the Veterans committee) seems skewed.

Sadly, I say this having worked once as a sportswriter. Many egos involved in the field -- egos as big as any player, lol. If a player treated a writer badly -- as Bonds often did -- they remember that.

Suggest a revolving committee of a dozen or two luminaries of the game -- an equal mix of living HOF members, fans (yes), GMs, managers, and then I don't mind adding a sportswriters/media/broadcast types. Equal mix from these groups. Debate meetings can be scheduled via Zoom. But the way it is now, the sportswriters dominate too much. Revamp the voting process to fit this small but more diverse committee.

I'm generally a big and open HOF type, not too restrictive. The way the voting process is now, fewer players get enough votes because the writers/media can only check a limited number of guys on their ballots. Get rid of that, too.

Agree with Hack Attack here. Those voting on HOF admission should be organized along the lines he suggests. But injustices will still occur. The most amazing one (voting malpractice) of all time? Albert Einstein did win a Nobel Prize, BUT NOT for his Relativity Theories! Underbelievable!
Jon

Agree with Hack, but I'm also curious. At the time, what were the stated rules about banned substances? I forget. Clearly it was all done in the shadows, but at the same time clearly there was little to no enforcement of any rules against it.

Also, what rules existed outside of MLB regarding the PEDs we now know about?

HOF IS a joke, but I never liked Fathead Bonds, so I'm smiling

I adamantly agree with Hack on allowing Bonds, Clemens and possibly Sosa, Mac into the Hall. Here is another question, what about the affects of beanies and greenies, amphetamine use? How many more homeruns, doubles, singles, stolen bases did Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and others hit, play with the impact of amphetamines? Both Mays and Aaron admitted to use of "red juice", in fact Willie Mays' nickname was "Red Juice."

And cheating! Ala Houston Astros, Boston Red Sox. Will Carlos Beltran, Jose Altuve, be punished with exemptions?

The Hall of Fame is a museum, that in fact is what it is. And yes Bud Selig AND KENNESHAW LANDIS are in the hall. And we all know that Landis KEPT, African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans from competing, That is a far greater travesty. Can you imagine, Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Oscar Charleston, Martin Dihigo, Pop Lloyd, Smokey Joe Williams, Rube Foster, Mule Suttles, Turkey Stearnes, John Beckwith, John Donalson, Cool Papa Bell, Homerun Johnson, Tubby Scales, Judy Johnson, Jose Mendez, playing major league baseball. That is by far the greatest crime.

The HOF election process may be a joke but they must be eating up all the attention. Especially with MLB in lockout. It's good for business just like steroids were good for business 20 years ago.

They could only milk Joe Jackson and Pete Rose for so long. This new crop of villains creates more discussion about the Hall of Fame than anything happening on the field.
When we were young, everyone dreamed of visiting Cooperstown on a lazy summer afternoon.
If not for Barry Bonds and friends, no one under the age of 30 would even know there was a baseball HOF.

Can you imagine, Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Oscar Charleston, Martin Dihigo, Pop Lloyd, Smokey Joe Williams, Rube Foster, Mule Suttles, Turkey Stearnes, John Beckwith, John Donalson, Cool Papa Bell, Homerun Johnson, Tubby Scales, Judy Johnson, Jose Mendez, playing major league baseball. That is by far the greatest crime.

Without a doubt.

If not for Barry Bonds and friends, no one under the age of 30 would even know there was a baseball HOF.

As much a commentary on modern media and mindset as it it is (perhaps) of baseball's eclipse at the hands of "faster" sports.

Speaking of (supposedly) faster:
Amount of actual playing time in a football game: 11 minutes.
Amount of actual playing time in a baseball game: 18.

My favorite quote about football comes from George Will: “Football combines two of the worst things in American life. It is violence punctuated by committee meetings.”

Even though I followed it (and basketball) religiously in my youth, and played it, as well (you're male, it's Texas, it's the gd LAW), have to say the man hit the nail on the head.* It's also not a very democratic sport. Nobody the size of Jose Altuve is an all-star in the NFL, unless they're a kicker. Baseball gave us John Kruk, who looked like he walked out of a bar and onto the field.

*which may make the contemplative aspects of football/baseball similar. You ponder what's going to happen next, because there's a ton of downtime.