What does the card price reflect?

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ScumbyJr

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What does the card price reflect?

PostSun May 24, 2015 2:03 pm

Does it reflect the super advanced, secret adjustments, online game results or the basic card? I had assumed the latter, but it appears I was wrong.
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l.strether

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostSun May 24, 2015 2:41 pm

ScumbyJr wrote:Does it reflect the super advanced, secret adjustments, online game results or the basic card? I had assumed the latter, but it appears I was wrong.


I may be giving SOM too much credit, but the pricing probably also reflects structural/comparative analysis of all the cards, as well as the total cost of all the cards SOM had assigned to the league prior to pricing. In other words, Kemp's pricing may reflect what SOM deemed his structural/comparative value in relation to other left fielders or right fielders in the set. The same would go for Ian Desmond in relation to other shortstops in the set.

Again, however, I may be giving them too much credit for pricing as they should actually price.
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LMBombers

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostSun May 24, 2015 7:13 pm

I could be wrong but I believe the price is based on that particular card in comparison to the other available players in that set. For instance the exact same card may not be priced the same in the 2013 set as it would be in the 2014 set.
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MARCPELLETIER

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostSun May 24, 2015 9:48 pm

Scumby, you know that the basic card is the card with no ballpark homeruns, no ballpark singles, basic defensive ratings (no e ratings), basic stealing (B, or C, no catcher's arm rating, no first-second number, no wp, no pb---here's an example of the basic card http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Strat ... -cards.jpg). Thanksfully, the card price does not reflect the basic card.

The card price reflects the card we use in both advanced and super-advanced settings. The differences are rather small between the advanced and superadvanced settings, btw, and the price would probably be very similar. Perhaps it could help that I add one comment: a lot of people, especially the old-timers who used to play the game in real-life (who would roll the dice and look at the cards) are surprised by the super-advanced settings because they played the game most often with the advanced settings, and perhaps assume the same rules were applied. But Som-online has been played with the superadvanced settings from day 1. There should be no confusion for the players who have been playing only the online game.

I have my doubts that the card price includes everything on the card---I'm pretty sure that it does not include the hit-and-run and bunt ratings, the hitting performance of the pitchers, it probably give the same value for outs, whether they are gb B, gbC, flyB, or K. I have my doubts that closer ratings are taken into consideration--sadly. I'm pretty certain that two-inning relievers receive a bonus compared to one-inning guy---but does that bonus reflect the advanced or super-advanced bullpen---I can't tell, but to repeat, the differences would be very small anyway.

Last point, I have no proof, but I'm pretty certain that the card price DOES NOT reflect the secret adjustments. To give one example, if a reliever, say, Doolittle, has a walk ratio or a hit ratio below what is possible to create on the card, Strat's engine does apply a secret adjustment to make the SOM walk ratio or the SOM hit ratio more realistic that what is possible if you play real-life, and I'm pretty sure that the card price does not reflect this adjustment. These secret adjustments have a small impact---less than 10% on any player affected by these secret adjustments---SOM once mentioned, I seem to recall.
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l.strether

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostSun May 24, 2015 9:56 pm

Those were some solid points, MARC, but you didn't address the comparative/structural elements of the pricing I mentioned in my post above:
l.strether wrote:I may be giving SOM too much credit, but the pricing probably also reflects structural/comparative analysis of all the cards, as well as the total cost of all the cards SOM had assigned to the league prior to pricing. In other words, Kemp's pricing may reflect what SOM deemed his structural/comparative value in relation to other left fielders or right fielders in the set. The same would go for Ian Desmond in relation to other shortstops in the set.

I'm sure that structural/comparative element is a prime, if not primary, one in SOM's card pricing.
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keyzick

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostMon May 25, 2015 8:43 am

What do you mean by structural/comparative element?
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l.strether

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostMon May 25, 2015 10:16 am

keyzick wrote:What do you mean by structural/comparative element?

By structural, I mean as determined by the price structure and structural values SOM sets on the players. In other words, in the structural sense, SOM would determine how much the total sum price of the players is going to be, and what qualities of each position are going to be valued and to what degree. They may decide for a 250 m sum pricing--a guess--and then divide the cards according to those values. An example of these values may be a preferencing, in order, of OBP, defense, power, speed, and arm for their right fielders.

The comparative element would come into play when the pricing would be determined by how each player, rated according to SOM's ordered structural values, compares to every other player of the same position.
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KEVINEHLE

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostMon May 25, 2015 12:15 pm

All I know is that whoever priced Brian Dozier's card needs to find a new profession. :shock:
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Radagast Brown

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostMon May 25, 2015 1:55 pm

Second base in general must have been hard to price this year because Altuve is not priced right either.
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wavygravy2k

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Re: What does the card price reflect?

PostMon May 25, 2015 4:52 pm

I would not be surprised if they used similar formulas that are used by fantasy leagues - which are based on stats from the previous year. I read up on this a bit not too long ago and below is basically an abridged version of what is done in some fantasy leagues:

1. Subtract the stats of an average player and divide by the standard deviation for the pool of drafted players.
2. Adjust values so that the last players chosen at each position have equal values.
3. Actual dollar values are based on how many teams are in the league and how many dollars each team will have to spend. Also, the amount of pitchers on a team is also a factor. 70% of money would be allocated for hitting, and the remaining 30% saved for pitchers.

Just for kicks, I attempted to price players with the formula above. This was done sometime before the 2014 set was released. I didn't use every single stat so I'm sure it's not completely accurate. I also let the computer generate these prices. I didn't manually change any of the prices but did adjust the formula if some prices didn't turn out right. This is what I came up with for some players:

(SOM in parenthesis)

Trout $11.44 (12M)
Altuve $7.70 (8.23M)
Dozier $7.33 (8.30M)
Kershaw $8.77 (9M)
Holland $5.94 (4.16M)
Betances $5.11 (5.29M)
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