21.1 Nominations are Open!

Discussion for new cards to add; moderated by Rosie2167

Moderator: BC15NY

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Big Willie

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:27 pm

Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 2:57 pm

1. 2019 Charlie Morton TB SP* 16-6 3.05 1.08whip 0.7 hr/9 AS CY-3 MVP-21. Much needed HUGE addition to the Rays franchise! Great post-season pitcher. The Rays really need more quality cards for franchise leagues.
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/90744/2019/1/2019
2. 1983 Tom Niedenfuer LA RP 8-3 1.90 95 innings .88 WHIP. One of the best relief seasons of the 80's https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/838865/1680/1/80
3. 1898 Duke Farrell WHS C .314/.383/.393 122 OPS+, switch-hitting catcher, one of the more important early catchers, can also steal a base or two
4. 1976 Garry Maddox PHI cf1(-2)e6 .330 BA .377 OBP .833 OPS big improvement over current cards
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/737367/1670/1/70
5. 1992 Juan Guzman Toronto SP 16-5 2.64 ERA 1.15 WHIP, All Star (new card), key SP on the Blue Jay championship teams. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3310/1690/1/90
6. 1948 Ken Keltner CLE 3B .297/.395/.522 31 HR 119 RBI , one of the top players on the Cleveland BASEBALL TEAMS last World Series Champion. A most underrepresented team in Strat. Possibly the best third basemen of the late 30's and 40's. Joe Di Maggio considered him to be the best at 3B
7. 1998 Scott Rolen PHI 3B. - Won a gold glove and hit 31 homeruns in just his second season in the league. .290/.391/.532. 711 Plate appearances and a competent base stealer racking up 14 this season. Currently Mike Schmidt is the only Phillies exp era 3b with a card. Some Variety perhaps?
8. 1969 Matty Alou Pit .331/.369/.411 OPS-.780 Bats-L BAL-3R CF-2(+2)e8, LF-2 INJ Risk-0
Led League in Hits and Doubles, would be a HUGE improvement for him over current 1962 ($.95M) and 1970 ($.90M)
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/30166/1660/1/60
9. 1979 Davey Lopes LA This is his highest eligible career OPS and OPS+ and his 7L AA steal 17 speed gives him nice value. His mystery card fielding 2b320 will be adjusted to at least 315
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/737180/1670/1/70
10.1987 Candy Maldonado SF Bats-R BAL-E RF/LF-3(-3)e7 INJ Risk-15. 14 year career, good run with late 80s Giants, solid player. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/837432/1680/1/80
11. 2018 Max Scherzer WAS Throws-R BAL-1R END-S7* 18-7 ERA 2.53 WHIP 0.91 SO 300 BB 51
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/90774/2018/1/2018
12. 1990 David Justice ATL Bats-L BAL-5L 1b-4e27, RF-3(0)e11 INJ Risk-15
Unique lefty balance. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3388/1690/1/90
13. 1916 Amos Strunk PHA Bats-L BAL-1R CF-2(-1)e7, RF-2(-1)e7, 1b-4e21 INJ Risk-3 .316/.393/.421
14. 1937 Charlie Gehringer - Career high .371 Avg, Career High Fielding %, his ONLY MVP Season.
15. 1998 Mo Vaughn, Red Sox, Bats L .337 40 115 .402 .591 .993 1b-3e14. Career highs in BA, SLG, OPS+. 2nd career bests in H, R, 2B, HRs, TB, OPS. Vaughn 1998 stats vs. RHP & LHP in BA, SLG, OBP, OPS, & OPS+ are nearly identical, so it should be a balanced card. 3 game max injury risk. Better offensively & on D than the other Vaughn cards in the set.
16. 2014 Victor Martinez DET. Led league in on base and ops. Second in mvp. 172 ops+
17. 1993 Jay Bell PIT Bats-R SS 1e12 .310/.392/.437 Gives Pirates Expansion a solid SS. An upgrade on his Pirates card. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3823/1690/1/90
18.1998 Brian Jordan STL Bats-R BAL-3L RF/CF-2(-1)e11, 3b-4e37 INJ Risk-3
25 HR, 91 RBI, .316 Avg. Two sport star’s best season, 15 year career, crazy he doesn’t yet have a card…………..
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3948/1690/1/90
19. 1992 Gary Sheffield, SD, Bats-R, 2L BAL, 3b-2e19, 33 HR, 100 RBI, .330/.385/.580, Batting Champion, Help for Padres
20. 1929 Lew Fonseca 1B CLE Bats-R .369/.427/.532 No Card
(X)21. 1884 Fred Dunlap, 2B, St. Louis Maroons, Bats R .412 13, ? RBI, .448 .621 1.069 Maroons speedy player/manager & teammate of pitching ace Charlie Sweeney, easily led league in BA, R, H, HR, SLG, OBP, OPS, OPS+ & TB to go along with 39 DO, 8 TR & 160 runs scored in 113 game season. Best defensive player at 2B in league with 1.4 Defensive WAR.
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BC15NY

  • Posts: 1148
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Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 5:09 pm

The 1884 Dunlap is not legit. We went down this path once before. The 1884 St Louis Maroons played in the Union Association and the other teams were all garbage.

We will need a replacement nomination for 1884 Dunlap.

Thanks,
Bill
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Big Willie

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:27 pm

Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 5:28 pm

BC15NY wrote:The 1884 Dunlap is not legit. We went down this path once before. The 1884 St Louis Maroons played in the Union Association and the other teams were all garbage.

We will need a replacement nomination for 1884 Dunlap.

Thanks,
Bill


Bill: See the article at the this link, https://www.mlb.com/news/negro-leagues- ... ords-stats , which states in pertinent part:

"In 1968, MLB’s Special Committee on Baseball Records was convened by then-Commissioner William Eckart to determine which past professional leagues should be classified alongside the American League and National League as Major Leagues in the first publication of “The Baseball Encyclopedia.” The committee ultimately concluded that the American Association (1882-91), Union Association (1884), Players’ League (1890) and Federal League (1914-15) qualified."

So it appears that the 1884 Union Association was conferred major league status 53 years ago by MLB.

Also, the ATG9 card set already has a card for Dunlap's teammate from the 1884 St. Louis Maroons, $12.52 mil Charlie Sweeney. If Sweeney gets a card for the same year, same team, same league, why should Dunlap be excluded?

1873 Ross Barnes has a card based on a 69 game season for a franchise that lasted 5 years in a league that has NEVER been conferred major league status for that time period. Barnes' status as a major leaguer is far more tenuous than Dunlap's, yet Barnes has a card.

MLB and MLB historians have concluded that the 1884 Union Association was a bonafide major league of professional baseball players and thus Dunlap meets the nomination criteria. To arbitrarily exclude him from eligibility for inclusion is contrary not only to MLB's decision that the Union Association was a major league, but flies in the face of ATG9 precedent with players like Sweeney and Barnes being included in the card set.

Dunlap should be left on the ballot and the voters should decide whether he should be included in the ATG9 card set.
Last edited by Big Willie on Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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STEVE F

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Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 5:34 pm

How would you like someone to ask you "what do you do" "I'm a Maroon" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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BC15NY

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Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 6:47 pm

I'm sure if the card is left on the ballot it will get voted in, based on the extreme stats. Let's get some additional feedback first.

Do we want to add more cards to ATG outside of the American and National leagues? (e.g. Union Association)

Thanks,
Bill
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andycummings65

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Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 7:09 pm

BC15NY wrote:I'm sure if the card is left on the ballot it will get voted in, based on the extreme stats. Let's get some additional feedback first.

Do we want to add more cards to ATG outside of the American and National leagues? (e.g. Union Association)

Thanks,
Bill


The criteria for nominations is MLB cards. I prefer MLB than adding cards from various other defunct leagues, slippery slope and all of that. The fact that some have slipped through is not a valid reason in my eyes to add them.
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Big Willie

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Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 7:31 pm

BC15NY wrote:I'm sure if the card is left on the ballot it will get voted in, based on the extreme stats. Let's get some additional feedback first.

Do we want to add more cards to ATG outside of the American and National leagues? (e.g. Union Association)

Thanks,
Bill


andycummings65 wrote:The criteria for nominations is MLB cards. I prefer MLB than adding cards from various other defunct leagues, slippery slope and all of that. The fact that some have slipped through is not a valid reason in my eyes to add them.


See the article at the this link, https://www.mlb.com/news/negro-leagues- ... ords-stats , which states in pertinent part:

"In 1968, MLB’s Special Committee on Baseball Records was convened by then-Commissioner William Eckart to determine which past professional leagues should be classified alongside the American League and National League as Major Leagues in the first publication of “The Baseball Encyclopedia.” The committee ultimately concluded that the American Association (1882-91), Union Association (1884), Players’ League (1890) and Federal League (1914-15) qualified."

So it appears that the 1884 Union Association was conferred major league status 53 years ago by MLB. Not only was it decided by MLB in 1968 that the United Association was Major League Baseball, but the American Association, the Players League (1890) the Federal League (1914-15) were classified such as Major League Baseball as well by the panel of MLB experts, historians and insiders appointed by the Commissioner Eckart 53 years ago to consider the question. They studied hundreds of teams from dozens of leagues across the country and only 4 leagues met their criteria as being major league baseball. Now the negro Leagues have been (belatedly) conferred Major League Baseball status.

I note that 1882 Guy Hecker's ATG card is based on his stats with Lousville of the American Association, which was one of the leagues conferred as Major League Baseball in 1968. In addition, we have dozens of NeL cards before the Negro Leagues were officially recognized as being part of MLB.

Not only should players from the Union Association be eligible for inclusion in the ATG card set, but so should players from the American Association, Players League and Federal League based on their 50+ year status as being Major Leagues.
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MICHAELCHIOLINO

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Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 8:00 pm

Dunlap's monster season is in a major league in name only. It is recognized by MLB, the baseball reference and the baseball encyclopedia. It is not recognized by many baseball historians. There were only a few number of NL & AA players that jumped to the UA. It lasted for one lone season. Dunlap had some fine seasons for NL clubs clearing .300 twice (while compiling a .292 average including his UA stats). He was a BIG BIG FISH in a SMALL SMALL pond. I would say Sweeney snuck in. Ross Barnes at least played on a NA club that joined the NL. Fan of neither of those selections. I am fine with AA teams because they were competitive with NL clubs. I myself limit voting for players before 1894 because rules before that were not close to those of the 1900's.
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rookssa1958

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Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 8:13 pm

1. 2019 Charlie Morton TB SP* 16-6 3.05 1.08whip 0.7 hr/9 AS CY-3 MVP-21. Much needed HUGE addition to the Rays franchise! Great post-season pitcher. The Rays really need more quality cards for franchise leagues.
2. 1983 Tom Niedenfuer LA RP 8-3 1.90 95 innings .88 WHIP. One of the best relief seasons of the 80's https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/838865/1680/1/80
3. 1898 Duke Farrell WHS C .314/.383/.393 122 OPS+, switch-hitting catcher, one of the more important early catchers, can also steal a base or two
4. 1976 Garry Maddox PHI cf1(-2)e6 .330 BA .377 OBP .833 OPS big improvement over current cards
5. 1992 Juan Guzman Toronto SP 16-5 2.64 ERA 1.15 WHIP, All Star (new card), key SP on the Blue Jay championship teams
6. 1948 Ken Keltner CLE 3B .297/.395/.522 31 HR 119 RBI , one of the top players on the Cleveland BASEBALL TEAMS last World Series Champion. A most underrepresented team in Strat. Possibly the best third basemen of the late 30's and 40's. Joe Di Maggio considered him to be the best at 3B
7. 1998 Scott Rolen PHI 3B. - Won a gold glove and hit 31 homeruns in just his second season in the league. .290/.391/.532. 711 Plate appearances and a competent base stealer racking up 14 this season. Currently Mike Schmidt is the only Phillies exp era 3b with a card. Some Variety perhaps?
8. 1969 Matty Alou Pit .331/.369/.411 OPS-.780 Bats-L BAL-3R CF-2(+2)e8, LF-2 INJ Risk-0
Led League in Hits and Doubles, would be a HUGE improvement for him over current 1962 ($.95M) and 1970 ($.90M)
9.2002 Roy Oswalt, HOU, Throws-R, S7*, 19-9, 3.01 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 208 Ks (most for Oswalt's career). 
Astros need another Oswalt, this one will have the *. Lots of gbA's
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andycummings65

  • Posts: 13612
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:42 pm

Re: 21.1 Nominations are Open!

PostTue Jan 19, 2021 8:43 pm

1. 2019 Charlie Morton TB SP* 16-6 3.05 1.08whip 0.7 hr/9 AS CY-3 MVP-21. Much needed HUGE addition to the Rays franchise! Great post-season pitcher. The Rays really need more quality cards for franchise leagues.
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/90744/2019/1/2019
2. 1983 Tom Niedenfuer LA RP 8-3 1.90 95 innings .88 WHIP. One of the best relief seasons of the 80's https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/838865/1680/1/80
3. 1898 Duke Farrell WHS C .314/.383/.393 122 OPS+, switch-hitting catcher, one of the more important early catchers, can also steal a base or two
4. 1976 Garry Maddox PHI cf1(-2)e6 .330 BA .377 OBP .833 OPS big improvement over current cards
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/737367/1670/1/70
5. 1992 Juan Guzman Toronto SP 16-5 2.64 ERA 1.15 WHIP, All Star (new card), key SP on the Blue Jay championship teams. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3310/1690/1/90
6. 1948 Ken Keltner CLE 3B .297/.395/.522 31 HR 119 RBI , one of the top players on the Cleveland BASEBALL TEAMS last World Series Champion. A most underrepresented team in Strat. Possibly the best third basemen of the late 30's and 40's. Joe Di Maggio considered him to be the best at 3B
7. 1998 Scott Rolen PHI 3B. - Won a gold glove and hit 31 homeruns in just his second season in the league. .290/.391/.532. 711 Plate appearances and a competent base stealer racking up 14 this season. Currently Mike Schmidt is the only Phillies exp era 3b with a card. Some Variety perhaps?
8. 1969 Matty Alou Pit .331/.369/.411 OPS-.780 Bats-L BAL-3R CF-2(+2)e8, LF-2 INJ Risk-0
Led League in Hits and Doubles, would be a HUGE improvement for him over current 1962 ($.95M) and 1970 ($.90M)
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/30166/1660/1/60
9. 1979 Davey Lopes LA This is his highest eligible career OPS and OPS+ and his 7L AA steal 17 speed gives him nice value. His mystery card fielding 2b320 will be adjusted to at least 315
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/737180/1670/1/70
10.1987 Candy Maldonado SF Bats-R BAL-E RF/LF-3(-3)e7 INJ Risk-15. 14 year career, good run with late 80s Giants, solid player. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/837432/1680/1/80
11. 2018 Max Scherzer WAS Throws-R BAL-1R END-S7* 18-7 ERA 2.53 WHIP 0.91 SO 300 BB 51
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/90774/2018/1/2018
12. 1990 David Justice ATL Bats-L BAL-5L 1b-4e27, RF-3(0)e11 INJ Risk-15
Unique lefty balance. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3388/1690/1/90
13. 1916 Amos Strunk PHA Bats-L BAL-1R CF-2(-1)e7, RF-2(-1)e7, 1b-4e21 INJ Risk-3 .316/.393/.421
14. 1937 Charlie Gehringer - Career high .371 Avg, Career High Fielding %, his ONLY MVP Season.
15. 1998 Mo Vaughn, Red Sox, Bats L .337 40 115 .402 .591 .993 1b-3e14. Career highs in BA, SLG, OPS+. 2nd career bests in H, R, 2B, HRs, TB, OPS. Vaughn 1998 stats vs. RHP & LHP in BA, SLG, OBP, OPS, & OPS+ are nearly identical, so it should be a balanced card. 3 game max injury risk. Better offensively & on D than the other Vaughn cards in the set.
16. 2014 Victor Martinez DET. Led league in on base and ops. Second in mvp. 172 ops+
17. 1993 Jay Bell PIT Bats-R SS 1e12 .310/.392/.437 Gives Pirates Expansion a solid SS. An upgrade on his Pirates card. https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3823/1690/1/90
18.1998 Brian Jordan STL Bats-R BAL-3L RF/CF-2(-1)e11, 3b-4e37 INJ Risk-3
25 HR, 91 RBI, .316 Avg. Two sport star’s best season, 15 year career, crazy he doesn’t yet have a card…………..
https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3948/1690/1/90
19. 1992 Gary Sheffield, SD, Bats-R, 2L BAL, 3b-2e19, 33 HR, 100 RBI, .330/.385/.580, Batting Champion, Help for Padres
20. 1929 Lew Fonseca 1B CLE Bats-R .369/.427/.532 No Card
(X)21. 1884 Fred Dunlap, 2B, St. Louis Maroons, Bats R .412 13, ? RBI, .448 .621 1.069 Maroons speedy player/manager & teammate of pitching ace Charlie Sweeney, easily led league in BA, R, H, HR, SLG, OBP, OPS, OPS+ & TB to go along with 39 DO, 8 TR & 160 runs scored in 113 game season. Best defensive player at 2B in league with 1.4 Defensive WAR.
22. 2002 Roy Oswalt, HOU, Throws-R, S7*, 19-9, 3.01 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 208 Ks (most for Oswalt's career).
Astros need another Oswalt, this one will have the *. Lots of gbA's
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