19.3 Nominations Discussion

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ratioman2

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 9:43 am

You mean his 95 card would be "Orioles" but he would be given composite stats?
TOT 1995 .329 .388 .576 .963 151
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andycummings65

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 9:50 am

visick wrote:Bobby Bonilla
1991 vs 1995

1991 he is a Pirate. Last I checked, PITT doesn't need much help with their hitting, esp. in RF.

1995 he is an Oriole. BAL could use the help.



My first thought on Bonilla is, besides the fact that he will On the Mets payroll forever, is his years with the Pirates, teaming with Bonds, Van Slyke, Bell, etc. under Jim Leyland.

I didn’t even remember he played for the Orioles. 1995 is a split season between Mets/Orioles, but Strat gave him a Mets card AND an Orioles card. They are both limited in their at bats.

843 games as a Pirate/220 as an Oriole. I’d rather see us give him a better Pirates card first before playing whack a mole chasing him through all of his 1 or 2 year stops of free agency
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george barnard

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 10:06 am

ratioman2 wrote:You mean his 95 card would be "Orioles" but he would be given composite stats?
TOT 1995 .329 .388 .576 .963 151


I would presume that it would be a composite card -- even if both O's and Mets cards exist.
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andycummings65

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 10:21 am

george barnard wrote:
ratioman2 wrote:You mean his 95 card would be "Orioles" but he would be given composite stats?
TOT 1995 .329 .388 .576 .963 151


I would presume that it would be a composite card -- even if both O's and Mets cards exist.


I only see a separate Mets card and Separate Orioles card. Don't see a composite card.
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george barnard

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 10:51 am

andycummings65 wrote:
george barnard wrote:
ratioman2 wrote:You mean his 95 card would be "Orioles" but he would be given composite stats?
TOT 1995 .329 .388 .576 .963 151


I would presume that it would be a composite card -- even if both O's and Mets cards exist.


I only see a separate Mets card and Separate Orioles card. Don't see a composite card.


You would know, Andy. I just don't understand why they wouldn't make a composite card...
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BDWard

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 11:40 am

Before the advent of the online computer game, when the game was based solely on the cards issued, SOM issued composite cards for a player who played for two or more teams during the season only if the cards were based on teams in the same league. The defensive ratings, running, hit and run and bunting ratings were the same on such cards, but since they were based on different stats in different leagues, the rest of the card was based on those stats. So, for example, 1972 Duke Sims had separate Dodgers and Tigers cards. The Dodgers card was awful (.192 BA), but Duke stepped up for the Tigers, who were in a pennant race and actually had a pretty good card (.316). Oscar Gamble, who played for Texas and the Yankees in 1979 had a composite card then, which was part of the Yankees' team card set, since that was the last team he played for in 1979. 2000 Charles Johnson played for the Orioles and White Sox, so he has a composite card, which was carded to the White Sox in 2000 (his last 2000 team), but SOM, IMHO, departed from its long standing practice of carding players to their last team and made a mistake by carding him to the Orioles in the ATG game (he played in more games for the Orioles than the White Sox in 2000). Also, Rick Sutcliffe in 1984 came to the Cubs in June from Cleveland, going 16-1, winning the Cy Young award while leading the Cubs to their first divisional title. In 1984, he had cards for both the Cubs and the Indians, but in the ATG game he has a composite card for the Cubs, his last 1984 team, which does not do justice to his dominating NL performance for the Cubs. There are other examples as well, but those mentioned above came immediately to mind.

My guess based on SOM past history and practice since the advent of the ATG computer game is that SOM would issue a composite ATG card for 1995 Bonilla, with Bonilla being carded to the Orioles, his last 1995 team.

FWIW, I agree that the 1995 Bonilla card has better numbers than the 1991 card nominated by rburgh, but I get it, as rburgh is an avowed Pirates fan and obviously wants to see a better Bonilla Pirates card. The same issue was raised several years ago when I nominated the 2002 Magglio Ordonez White Sox card, .320 38 135 .381 .597 .978, but people wanted his 2007 .363 Tigers bating champ card. I withdrew the 2002 nomination and the 2007 card was eventually added to the ATG set, though I'd still like to see that Ordonez White Sox card added, as it is better defensively, has more power than the 2007 card, and of course, would give the White Sox a good RFer in franchise leagues.

I hope this helps.
Last edited by BDWard on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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george barnard

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 11:45 am

More than helps! Thanks.

Now we get composite cards when players switch leagues (see McCutcheon 2018 carded to the Yankees with his year long stats).
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visick

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 5:06 pm

I get the "logic" of wanting to see a better Bonilla card with the Pirates.

Sorry to pose this question this way but...

Who in their right mind will want to play Bonilla OVER Clemente?
It's just not going to get used, whereas Bonilla's card will with the O's...

I was under the impression that the '95 card would be a composite.
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andycummings65

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 5:33 pm

1-Bonilla can play 1b
2-People play all kinds of caps, the top card is not always needed or might not fit the cap properly. You'd be surprised what gets used.
3- An early 90's Pirate team would definitely use Bonilla. Many Franchise Leagues are set up with well-known teams from baseball history, and a guy that was as significant with those early 90s Pirates needs a card. A better card than the one we have now.
4-That 91 card has some very interesting splits, not a lot of cards like it. Nice Power vs LHP, nice OBP vs RHP.

He's a LF/RF-4(-1)e9, 3b-4e21 with that Oriole card.

Strat may decide to create a composite card, but, as of now, there isn't one.

Nominate it. It doesn't cancel out the 91 Bonilla as being as usable card. Nobody says we can vote on only one Bonilla card.
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visick

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Re: 19.3 Nominations Discussion

PostWed Apr 24, 2019 11:57 am

"2-People play all kinds of caps, the top card is not always needed or might not fit the cap properly. You'd be surprised what gets used"

I've been wondering this since the onset of voting in players.

Guys who vote in players. Are you actually using them?
If not, what's the freakin point?
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