Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

Discussion for new cards to add; moderated by Rosie2167

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andycummings65

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Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostSat Feb 23, 2019 11:44 pm

Many have said that we don't know what we are getting when we nominate cards, so I've taken some time to put some stats together from some cards, using Diamond Dope and Veterans 1975 for the park, since it's kind of neutral (10,10,10,10). I asked Bill for his permission/blessing to do this. So I'll be posting some card add ideas, thoughts, etc to hopefully keep interest up and give folks some stuff to actually discuss on the boards.


My Goals on IMPROVEMENTS:
1--Provide a card that is more representative of a player's career than their current card(s)
2--Provide a card that is fundamentally different than their current cards

1899 Chick Stahl, BSB, Bats L, 2R Balance, RF-2(-1)e11), CF-4(-1)e11, RF-4(-1)e11
LH--2,5 2b, 5 3b, 1 HR, 15 BB 355/450/522, .972 OPS
RH--3.2 2b, 5.6 3b, 1.6 HR, 15 BB 417/504/624, 1.128
Braves RF, nice line especially vs RHP, lots of triples, his best current card is 2.11m
MORE REPRESENTATIVE

1909 Jake Stahl, BOS, Bats R, E Balance, 1b-3e24
LH--4.9 2b, 4.3 3b, 1.1 HR, 11 BB 362/433/536, .969 OPS
RH--4.8 2b, 1 3b, 1 HR, 11 BB 352/424/516, .939 OPS
Improvement on his 2 cheap cards, Red Sox db need better 1b.
Jake Stahl retired after 1910 season because he could make more money as a Bank Vice President.
Red Sox coaxed him out of retirement for the 1912 season, where he would be player-manager of the 105 win Red Sox, making the Royal Rooters extremely happy.
MORE REPRESENTATIVE

1916 Amos Strunk, PHA, Bats L, 1R Balance, CF-2(-1)e7, RF-2(-1)e7, 1b-4e21
LH--5.9 2b, 1.6 3b, 0.5 HR, 13 BB 396/475/509, .983 OPS
RH--6.2 2b, 1.8 3b, 0.6 HR, 13 BB 432/511/555, 1.066 OPS
Played in 5 World Series, CF for Connie Mack's A's, Much better than current 3.82m card, nice OBP
MORE REPRESENTATIVE

1919 Bobby Veach, DET, Bats L, E Balance, LF-2(-3)e13
LH--11 2b, 4.8 3b, 0.5 HR, 3 BB 438/459/651, 1.110 OPS
RH--14.5 2b, 4.8 3b, 0.5 HR, 3 BB 445/466/691, 1.157 OPS
Tigers LF for 11 years, Led League in Hits, Doubles, and Triples. Check out all those XBH
FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT with 2b numbers (AND BETTER)
Last edited by andycummings65 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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FRANKMANSUETO

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Re: Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostSun Feb 24, 2019 10:30 am

Jesse Burkett - 1895 Cleveland LF-4e25(+1) Bats(L) Balance(E) .409/.479/.524
Jake Beckley - 1894 Pittsburh 1B-3e30 Bats(L) Balance(2R) .343/.392/.518
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ratioman2

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Re: Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 2:18 pm

Roy Thomas 1903 Philadelphia 327/453/365. One other lesser card
Sherry Magee 1910 Phil Winner of the Strat Triple Crown BA, OBP, SLG. 331/445/507 One other lesser card
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andycummings65

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Re: Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 10:41 pm

FRANKMANSUETO wrote:Jesse Burkett - 1895 Cleveland LF-4e25(+1) Bats(L) Balance(E) .409/.479/.524
Jake Beckley - 1894 Pittsburh 1B-3e30 Bats(L) Balance(2R) .343/.392/.518


1895 Jesse Burkett, Cleveland Spiders, Bats-L, E Balance, LF-4(+1)e25
LH--3 2b, 3.3 3b, 1 HR, 15 BB 523/602/660, 1.262 OPS
RH--3 2b, 3.3 3b, 1 HR, 15 BB 524/603/661, 1.264 OPS

1900 Burkett (current card), STL, Bats-L, 1R Balance, LF-2(+2)e9
LH--0 2b, 4 3b, 1.4 HR, 13 BB 415/491/545, .936 OPS
RH--0 2b, 4 3b, 1.7 HR, 14 BB 434/513/575, 1.088 OPS

My Opinion: that 1895 Defense is atrocious. He'd only be a DH. Excellent Offense/OBP...would that defense mean he'd get used much?


1894 Jake Beckley, PIT, Bats-L, 2R Balance, 1b-2e30
LH--4.8 2b, 4.9 3b, 0.9 HR, 6 BB 294/377/473, .852 OPS
RH--7.1 2b, 5 3b, 1.6 HR, 5 BB 339/419/569, .988 OPS

1903 Jake Beckley, CIN, Bats-L, 1R Balance, 1b-3e14
LH--6.9 2b, 2.6 3b, 0.9 HR, 9 BB 330/392/479, .869 OPS
RH--7.8 2b, 2.8 3b, 0.8 HR, 9 BB 378/436/538, .974 OPS

My Opinion: The 1894 card just isn't as good as the current 1903 card. Beckley was a consistent performer, I don't see any cards that are demonstrably better than our current card.
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andycummings65

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Re: Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 10:53 pm

ratioman2 wrote:Roy Thomas 1903 Philadelphia 327/453/365. One other lesser card
Sherry Magee 1910 Phil Winner of the Strat Triple Crown BA, OBP, SLG. 331/445/507 One other lesser card


1903 Roy Thomas, PHI, Bats-L, 1R Balance, LF/CF/RF-4(-2)e15
LH--0.2 2b, 0 3b, 0 HR, 30 BB 401/573/403, .975 OPS
RH--0.2 2b, 0 3b, 0 HR, 30 BB 444/604/44, 1.050 OPS

1902 Thomas (current card), PHI, Bats-L, E Balance, LF/CF/RF-4(-2)e4
LH--0 2b, 1.4 3b, 0 HR, 30 BB 367/549/402, .951 OPS
RH--0 2b, 1.4 3b, 0 HR, 30 BB 367/549/402, .951 OPS

Thomas really had a remarkable string of Walks/OBP for 7-8 years. Defense makes him a liability there. His OBP is slightly better than our current card, but is it better enough to add this card?


1910 Sherry Magee, PHI, Bats-R, E Balance, LF/CF/RF-2(+2)e8
LH--9 2b, 4.5 3b, 1.1 HR, 22 BB 422/545/672, 1.217 OPS
RH--9 2b, 4.5 3b, 1.1 HR, 22 BB 416/540/666, 1.207 OPS

1911 Magee (Current Card), PHI, Bats R, 1L Balance, LF-1(0)e3
LH--17.2 2b, 0 3b, 9 HR, 0 BB 288/308/709, 1.017 OPS
RH--8.8 2b, 1 3b, 4.9 HR, 12 BB 313/409/585, .994 OPS

1911 is power, no OBP. 1912 is Hits and OBP, with less power. Led the League in Batting in 1910. Would be a fun add for the Phillies.
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george barnard

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Re: Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 am

1912 Jimmy Archer 283/330/384

1920 Joe Dugan 322/351/442

1910 Solly Hofman 325/406/461

1894 Tommy McCarthy 349/419/490

1920 Hi Myers 304/345/462

1910 Rube Oldring 308/340/430
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andycummings65

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Re: Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostFri Mar 08, 2019 2:17 pm

george barnard wrote:1912 Jimmy Archer 283/330/384

1920 Joe Dugan 322/351/442

1910 Solly Hofman 325/406/461

1894 Tommy McCarthy 349/419/490

1920 Hi Myers 304/345/462

1910 Rube Oldring 308/340/430



1912 Jimmy Archer, CHC, Bats-R, E Balance, C-1(-4)e14
LH--5.8 2b, 0 3b, 1.8 HR, 2 BB 317/336/422, .758 OPS
RH--5.7 2b, 0 3b, 1.8 HR, 2 BB 311/330/415, .745 OPS

1911 Archer, 1.59m, CHC, Bats-R, 1R Balance, C-1(-4)e2
LH--4.1 2b, 0.2 3b, 1.3 HR, 0 BB 249/256/327, .583 OPS
RH--5.5 2b, 1.2 3b, 2.2 HR, 0 BB 283/290/419, .709 OPS

Always liked 11 Archer's big arm and cheap price, wouldn't mind seeing this improvement to make him more palatable as a hitter.


1920 Joe Dugan, PHA, Bats-R, 2L Balance, 3b-2e28, SS-4e72, 2b-3e41
LH—14.8 2b, 0.2 3b, 2.8 HR, 0 BB 426/431/647, 1.078 OPS
RH—11.2 2b, 0.9 3b, 0 HR, 0 BB 379/384/500, .884 OPS

1924 Joe Dugan, NYY , Bats-R, 1L Balance, 3b-2e18, 2b-4e71
LH—3.6 2b, 1.6 3b, 1 HR, 5 BB 362/404/459, .863 OPS
RH—5.4 2b, 1 3b, 0 HR, 1 BB 339/357/410, .767 OPS

1927 Dugan, .77m, NYY, Bats-R, 3L Balance, 3b-2e26
LH—7.7 2b, 1.8 3b, 0.5 HR, 3 BB 354/384/479, .863 OPS
RH—6.2 2b, 0 3b, 0.8 HR, 5 BB 252/301/338, .639 OPS

Here’s a Dugan upgrade in that 1920 card. Those doubles. If you want Dugan to have a better Yankee card, that 1924 is it.



1910 Solly Hofman, CHC, Bats-R, E Balance, LF/CF/RF-3(0)e10, 1b-3e30, 3b-4e35, Steal: *4-6,12/-(18-13)
LH—5.4 2b, 5 3b, 0.6 HR, 15 BB 418/505/605, 1.110 OPS
RH—5.1 2b, 4.8 3b, 0.6 HR, 15 BB 397/487/576, 1.062 OPS

1906 Hofman, 1.52m, CHC, Bats-R, 1L Balance, CF/LF/RF-3(0)e7, 1b-3e12, SS-4e26, 2b-4e19, 3b-4e21,
Steal: *4-6,12/- (18-13)
LH--0 2b, 2 3b, 1.3 HR, 11 BB 318/394/399, .793 OPS
RH--0 2b, 1.6 3b, 1.1 HR, 11 BB 268/349/335, .684 OPS

1909 Hofman, 1.49, CHC, Bats-R, 1L Balance, CF/LF/RF-3(0)e6, Steal: *4-6,12/- (18-13)
LH--4.2 2b, 0.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 10 BB 356/422/414, .836 OPS
RH--3.8 2b, 0.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 10 BB 328/397/382, .779 OPS

Not a bad offensive add to CHC db. 1910 would be an improvement.


1894 Tommy McCarthy, BSB, Bats-R, E Balance, LF/CF-2(-2)e25
LH--2.4 2b, 1.3 3b, 2.8 HR, 11 BB 379/454/519, .974 OPS
RH--2.4 2b, 1.3 3b, 2.8 HR, 11 BB 379/454/519, .974 OPS

1895 McCarthy, .80m, BSB, Bats-R, E Balance, LF-3(+1)e11, 2b-4e28
LH--0.9 2b, 0 3b, 0.1 HR, 19 BB 258/388/270, .658 OPS
RH--0.9 2b, 0 3b, 0.1 HR, 19 BB 261/398/273, .671 OPS

That defense is not good, and there are better DHs. It's definitely an improvement, but isn't very exciting.


1920 Hy Myers, BKN, Bats-R, 2L Balance, CF-2(-1)e9, 3b-4e33
LH--13.2 2b, 4.8 3b, 2.8 HR, 8 BB 387/433/699, 1.132 OPS
RH--6.9 2b, 6.5 3b, 0.2 HR, 3 BB 338/356/530, 886 OPS

1921 Myers, .87m, BKN, Bats-R, E Balance, CF/LF/RF-3(-3)e7, 2b-4e19, 3b-4e28
LH--0.8 2b, 0 3b, 0.5 HR, 1 BB 303/316/325, .641 OPS
RH--0.8 2b, 0 3b, 0.4 HR, 1 BB 296/309/315, .624 OPS

11 year Dodger, he's much better than the scrub card. This would be a good improvement.


1910 Rube Oldring, PHA, Bats-R, E Balance, CF/LF/RF-1(+2)e7
LH--6.3 2b, 3.9 3b, 1 HR, 0 BB 390/395/549, .944 OPS
RH--6.3 2b, 3.9 3b, 1 HR, 0 BB 383/388/536, .925 OPS

1911 Oldring, 1.16m, PHA, Bats-R, 1R Balance, CF-2(0)e4
LH--0.6 2b, 5.1 3b, 1.5 HR, 0 BB 275/288/418, .706 OPS
RH--0.2 2b, 3.9 3b, 0.5 HR, 1 BB 358/375/448, .818 OPS

Somewhat better Oldring. Connie Mack needs a better CF, but I think that's 1916 Amos Strunk.
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The Last Druid

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JIMMY WILLIAMS 1899 *****

PostSun Mar 10, 2019 12:53 pm

Here I think is a vast improvement and a must get card.

Jimmy Williams 1899. This was his rookie year and will be bulletproof. He played 3 more games than his team did :roll: and even with the 680 AB + BB rule that SOM uses, he has 681 of those!

His current card is 2.47M and a 2 e15 at 2B. Bernie Hou chose that card as his OPS+ for that year was 115, which exactly matches his career OPS+, not at all bad for a 2B man.

1899 PIT NL 153 693 621 126 220 28 27 9 116 26 (sb) 51 .354 .416 .530 .946 158

He also played 3B exclusively that year and had the second highest WAR of any NL player that year. Love the 27 triples and 9 homeruns too.
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andycummings65

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Re: JIMMY WILLIAMS 1899 *****

PostMon Mar 18, 2019 10:59 am

The Last Druid wrote:Here I think is a vast improvement and a must get card.

Jimmy Williams 1899. This was his rookie year and will be bulletproof. He played 3 more games than his team did :roll: and even with the 680 AB + BB rule that SOM uses, he has 681 of those!

His current card is 2.47M and a 2 e15 at 2B. Bernie Hou chose that card as his OPS+ for that year was 115, which exactly matches his career OPS+, not at all bad for a 2B man.

1899 PIT NL 153 693 621 126 220 28 27 9 116 26 (sb) 51 .354 .416 .530 .946 158

He also played 3B exclusively that year and had the second highest WAR of any NL player that year. Love the 27 triples and 9 homeruns too.



1899 Jimmy Williams, PIT, Bats-R, E Balance, 3b-2e65, Steal: *3,4/-(16-13)
LH--4.1 2b, 8.1 3b, 1.4 HR, 11 BB 413/483/670 1.153 OPS
RH--6.3 2b, 4.7 3b, 3.1 HR, 11 BB 423/492/684, 1.176 OPS


Current 1906 Williams, 2.57m, NYY, E Balance, 2b-2e15
LH--5.8 2b, 1.5 3b, 0.2 HR, 10 BB 304/375/401, .776 OPS
RH--5.7 2b, 1.4 3b, 0.2 HR, 10 BB 298/370/391, .761 OPS

IF Strat helped with his errors, you're talking about a 2e32-33. He's not bulletproof, though he would be a 1 INJ with 681 PAs, so he would be pretty much injury proof. (The Pirates tied 5 games in 1899, and although those five ties didn't count in their W-L record, the stats did count for the players playing in those ties. That means Williams didn't play in one of the ties.)
Depending on what Start chose to do with that 65 error rating, I think he'd be in the 6-6.5m range. If they cut his error rating in half, he's as good as Frank Baker and better than Steinfeldt. If they don't, he's a DH.
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djp_77

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Re: Deadball Hitters---IMPROVEMENT Edition

PostFri Mar 22, 2019 1:17 pm

Johnny Evers 1912
Miller Huggins 1913
Home Run Baker 1912
Heinie Groh 1919 1921
Larry Gardner 1912 1921
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