Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

Discussion for new cards to add; moderated by Rosie2167

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andycummings65

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Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostSat Feb 23, 2019 7:43 pm

Many have said that we don't know what we are getting when we nominate cards, so I've taken some time to put some stats together from some cards, using Diamond Dope and Veterans 1975 for the park, since it's kind of neutral (10,10,10,10). I asked Bill for his permission/blessing to do this. So I'll be posting some card add ideas, thoughts, etc to hopefully keep interest up and give folks some stuff to actually discuss on the boards.


My Goals on IMPROVEMENTS:
1--Provide a card that is more representative of a player's career than their current card(s)
2--Provide a card that is fundamentally different than their current cards

Below are some cards from the Pre-War time frame that may be improvements on some of the ones we have currently.

1936 Jackie Hayes, CWS, Bats R, E Balance, 2b-2e25, SS-4e42, 3b-3e27
LH--9.9 2b, 0.2 3b, 0.8 HR, 5 BB 336/373/459, .832 OPS
RH--9.6 2b, 0.2 3b, 0.8 HR, 5 BB 328/366/448 .814 OPS
2b for the 1930s White Sox, nice Doubles from both sides, current card is a .53 scrub

1939 Buddy Lewis, WAS, Bats L, E Balance, 3b-4e36
LH--3.1 2b, 4.5 3b, 3.7 HR, 14 BB 397/481/644, 1.125 OPS
RH--2.9 2b, 4.6 3b, 3 HR, 14 BB 382/486/609, 1.077 OPS
Led the League in Triples this season, a good solid bat and for 10 seasons, despite losing 3 full seasons to WWII.
His current card is 1m

1933 Pepper Martin, STL, Bats R, E Balance, 3b-3e26, Stealing: *4-6,12/-(18-13)
LH--6.6 2b, 3 3b, 1.6 HR, 14 BB 399/482/586, 1.068 OPS
RH--6.4 3b, 3 3b, 1.7 HR, 14 BB 394/478/582, 1.059
Longtime Cardinal and spark plug for the GasHouse Gang. Led League in Runs and Steals.
Looks like he'd be an outstanding small ball player.
Much better than 2.45m card, Every bit as good vs LHP as that 2.83m 3L card, plus hits RHP.

1940 Eddie Miller, BSB, Bats R, E Balance, SS-1e28
LH--6.5 2b, 0.2 3b, 5 HR, 5 BB 308/347/523, .869 OPS
RH--6.4 2b, 0.2 3b, 4.8 HR, 5 BB 299/338/504, .842 OPS
A source of power at shortstop back when that was an aberration.
This card is much better than his 1945 card and not an 15 game INJ like that 1945 card.

1938 Buddy Myer, WAS, Bats L, 2R Balance, 2b-2e16, Stealing: *5,6/-(15-6)
LH--2.2 2b, 1.4 3b, 2.9 HR, 26 BB 345/503/510, 1.013 OPS
RH--4.3 2b, 2 3b, 0.5 HR, 0.5 HR, 27 BB 48/579/557, 1.136 OPS
Myer's 6.32m card is a fine offensive card, but that 3 at 2b can scare folks away.
This card has better defense and is close to the offensive producer that his 6.32m card is. Excellent OBP.
16 seasons with the Senators.....
Last edited by andycummings65 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ratioman2

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 2:21 pm

Bob O’Farrell 1922 CUBS Catcher 324/439/441 One other card
Dolph Camilli 1937 PHIL 1B 339/446/587/1.034
Johnny Bassler C 1924 Detroit 346/441/422 One other lesser card
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andycummings65

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 11:15 pm

ratioman2 wrote:Bob O’Farrell 1922 CUBS Catcher 324/439/441 One other card
Dolph Camilli 1937 PHIL 1B 339/446/587/1.034
Johnny Bassler C 1924 Detroit 346/441/422 One other lesser card


1922 Bob O'Farrell, CHC, Bats-R, 1L Balance, C-2(+1)e8
LH--3.8 2b, 2.5 3b, 0.8 HR, 27 BB 413/565/553, 1.117 OPS
RH--3.2 2b, 2 3b, 0.6 HR, 27 BB 344/514/455, .969 OPS

1926 O'Farrell (Current Card), STL, Bats-R, E Balance
LH--6.4 2b, 2.1 3b, 1.9 HR, 15 BB 329/429/507, .936 OPS
RH--6.2 2b, 2.1 3b, 1.9 HR, 15 BB 324/424/499, .923 OPS

Did you know that O'Farrell was the MVP in our current 1926 card year, when Cards won WS? That 1922 card might be a fun one in a small ball setting, with those singles and walks (he's SLOOOOOOOW though)


1937 Dolph Camilli, PHI, Bats-L, E Balance, 1b-1e9
LH--3.8 2b, 1.6 3b, 7.1 HR, 24 BB 433/564/773, 1.338 OPS
LH--3.8 2b, 1.7 3b, 7.5 HR, 24 BB 448/576/805, 1.381 OPS

1941 Camilli (current card) BKN, Bats-L, 2L Balance, 1b-1e15
LH--8.7 2b, 1.5 eb, 10.1 HR, 22 BB 309/463/807, 1.270 OPS
RH--3.2 2b, 0.6 3b, 9 HR, 22 BB 280/440/654, 1.094 OPS

Camilli was pretty much a power hitter with good OBP, except for 1937, when he batted .339, 62 points off of his career BA. I tend to shy away from outliers (some people LOVE them) because I feel like they don't really represent the player. That said, it's not a bad card. Wouldn't be my first choice but I would be ok with it I think.


1924 Johnny Bassler, DET, Bats-L, 6R Balance, C-2(0)e3
LH--0.6 2b, 0 3b, 0 HR, 13 BB 153/271/160, .431 OPS
RH--5.2 2b, 0.4 3b, 0.6 HR, 13 BB 449/526/533, 1.059 OPS

1923 Bassler (Current Card) DET, Bats-L, 1 R Balance, C-3(0)e2
LH--0.8 2b, 0.2 3b, 0 HR, 25 BB 295/465/309, .774 OPS
RH--0.9 2b, 0.2 3b, 0 HR, 25 BB 355/511/370, .881 OPS

1924 Bassler was 5th in MVP Voting and actually led the Tigers in AVG, besting Heilmann and Manush and tying Cobb. Of course, he was 7th in our current card year, 1923. That platoon option in 1923 looks nice
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george barnard

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 8:30 am

1936 Frankie Crosetti 288/387/437
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andycummings65

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostFri Mar 08, 2019 12:44 pm

george barnard wrote:1936 Frankie Crosetti 288/387/437



1936 Frankie Crosetti, NYY, Bats-R, E Balance, SS-1e43
LH--4.8 2b, 0.8 3b, 3.1 HR, 15 BB 314/415/484, .899 OPS
RH--4.5 2b, 0.8 3b, 3.1 HR, 15 BB 308/410/475, .885 OPS

1937 Crosetti, 2.20, NYY, Bats-R, E Balance, SS-1e31
LH--3.6 2b, 0.3 3b, 1.8 HR, 15 BB 216/332/320, .652 OPS
RH--3.3 2b, 0.3 3b, 1.8 HR, 15 BB 213/330/313, .643 OPS

A good improvement on offense (his 1939 card's offense is even worse than 1937, but his defense is a little better). Would be fine, but the question is, would you use that card if it is a 1e43? I'll use a Dahlen or Jennings as a 1e40 or Appling as a 2e32 because they can produce offense to make it up. This one? Probably not.
Don't mind it, but there's that......
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djp_77

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostFri Mar 08, 2019 8:57 pm

Max Bishop needs a better card. 1928, 1930, 1931, and 1933 are all good. I probably should have did the comparisons back when I had the app.
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andycummings65

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostFri Mar 08, 2019 11:21 pm

djp_77 wrote:Max Bishop needs a better card. 1928, 1930, 1931, and 1933 are all good. I probably should have did the comparisons back when I had the app.


1928 Max Bishop, PHA, Bats-L, 1R Balance, 2b-1e18, Runs 1-13, 15 Game INJ risk
4.3 2b, 0.4 3b, 0.8 HR, 26 BB 373/530/464, .993 OPS
4.7 2b, 0.4 3b, 1 HR, 26 BB 402/551/507, 1.058 OPS

1930 Max Bishop, PHA, Bats-L, 6R Balance, 2b-1e22, Runs 1-12, 15 Game INJ risk
LH--0 2b, 0 3b, 0 HR, 20 BB 000/213/000, .213 OPS
RH--4.4 2b, 0.7 3b, 2.6 HR, 40 BB 219/530/428, .958 OPS

1931 Max Bishop, PHA, Bats-L, E Balance, 2b-1e14, Runs 1-12, 3 Game INJ risk
LH--4.9 2b, 0.2 3b, 0.2 HR, 29 BB 353/532/427, .959 OPS
RH-- 4.8 2b, 0.2 3b, 0.2 HR, 29 BB 344/526/417, .943 OPS

1933 Max Bishop, PHA, Bats-L, 1R Balance, 2b-1e21, Runs 1-9, 15 Game INJ risk
LH--5.6 2b, 0 3b, 0.3 HR, 34 BB 321/541/410, .950 OPS
RH--6.4 2b, 0 3b, 0.5 HR, 34 BB 368/573/474, 1.047 OPS

Current 1926 Bishop, 5.65m, PHA, Bats-L, 1R balance, 2b-1e6, Runs 1-12, 15 Game INJ risk
LH--2.5 2b, 0 3b, 0 HR, 37 BB 264/523/300, .823 OPS
RH--3 2b, 0 3b, 0 HR, 37 BB 304/549/346, .895 OPS

Ok, the 1928 Bishop is different than 1926, because it hits. and it has a 13 Run Rating, best of any Bishop card. So that OBP can move around the bases a little faster than most Bishop cards.

1931 is a better version of the 1926 card, with its lower INJ risk and better hitting to go along with OBP and defense.

1933 has the best OBP of any, but it is SLOW and 15 game INJ risk.

For my money, I like the 1928 card.
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djp_77

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostFri Mar 22, 2019 1:14 pm

Rogers Hornsby 1925
Eddie Collins 1920
Frankie Frisch 1921 1929 1930
Billy Herman 1936 1937
Lonny Frey 1939
Tony Cuccinello 1930 1931
Del Pratt 1920 1921
Marty McManus 1923 1924 1930
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andycummings65

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Re: Pre War Infielders -- Improvement Edition

PostThu Mar 28, 2019 11:14 pm

djp_77 wrote:Rogers Hornsby 1925
Eddie Collins 1920
Frankie Frisch 1921 1929 1930
Billy Herman 1936 1937
Lonny Frey 1939
Tony Cuccinello 1930 1931
Del Pratt 1920 1921
Marty McManus 1923 1924 1930


1925 Rogers Hornsby, STL, Bats-R, 1L Balance, 2b-2e38
LH--9.4 2b, 2.4 3b, 13.8 HR, 21 BB 602/683/1.247, 1.930 OPS
RH--9 2b, 2.2 3b,13.3 HR, 21 BB 551/643/1.169 1.811 OPS
MVP. Triple Crown.

Current 1922 Hornsby, STL, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-2e17
LH--9 2b, 3 3b, 12 HR, 11 BB 539/590/1.070, 1.660 OPS
RH--8.8 2b, 2.8 3b, 11.8 HR, 11 BB 526/578/1.043, 1.621 OPS

Well, 1925 is better. If Strat minimizes the errors, it'd be VERY strong. (For the record, his 1922 card is a 2b-2e17 in ATG, but the card's original fielding rating is 2b-2e29, so they altered that one.)




1920 Eddie Collins, CWS, Bats-L, 2R Balance, 2b-1e23, Steal: *5,6/-(16-11)
LH--2.2 2b, 2.9 3b, 0 HR, 14 BB 402/485/487, .972 OPS
RH--7.7 2b, 2.2 3b, 0.2 HR, 10 BB 479/532/608, 1.141 OPS

Current 1914 Collins, 10.49m, PHA, Bats-L, E Balance, 2b-1e11, Steal: *3-6/- (19-15)
LH--4 2b, 3.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 23 BB 457/578/593
RH--4.3 2b, 3.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 23 BB 471/588/609

Current 1911 Collins, 7.30m, PHA, Bats-L, 1R Balance, 2b-1e13, Steal: *2-10,12/11 (15-11)
LH--0 2b, 0.5 3b, 0 HR, 16 BB 470/578/481, 1.059 OPS
RH--4.8 2b, 3.5 3b, 0.8 HR, 12 BB 461/550/616, 1.166 OPS

1920 would be his 3rd best card. Nope.




1921 Frankie Frisch, NYG, Bats-S, 1R Balance, 2b-1e34, 3b-2e31, Steal: *3-6/-(19-15)
LH--4.8 2b, 3.8 3b, 0.8 HR, 6 BB 375/415/520, .936 OPS
RH--5.3 2b, 4.2 3b,1 HR, 6 BB 419/457/584, 1.041 OPS
Led League in Steals.

1929 Frankie Frisch, STL, Bats-S, E Balance, 2b-1e26, 3b-2e22, Steal: *4-6,12/-(18-13), 15 Game INJ Risk
LH--8.6 2b, 3.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 10 BB 394/456/559, 1.015 OPS
RH--8.6 2b, 3.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 10 BB 410/470/575, 1.045 OPS
20th in MVP Voting.

1930 Frankie Frisch, STL, Bats-S, 1L Balance, 2b-1e32, 3b-3e34, Steal: *4-6/-(17-12)
LH--10.7 2b, 1 3b, 0.5 HR, 13 BB 416/486/565, 1.051 OPS
RH--10.7 2b, 1.8 3b, 1.8 HR, 8 BB 356/404/552, .955 OPS

Current 1921 Frisch, 7.63m, NYG, Bats-S, 2b-1e20, 3b-2e26, Steal: *3-6/-(19-15)
LH--4.8 2b, 3.8 3b, 0.8 HR, 6 BB 375/415/520, .935 OPS
RH--5.3 2b, 4.2 3b, 1 HR, 6 BB 419/457/584, 1.038 OPS

I don't see the other cards as demonstrably better or different than the current cards. The 1930 one is stronger vs LHP, but the 6.79 Frisch is a 4L...……..



1936 Billy Herman, CHC, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-2e24
LH--11.8 2b, 1.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 9 BB 394/450/549, .999 OPS
RH--11.6 2b, 1.3 3b, 0.3 HR, 9 BB 387/444/540, .983 OPS

1937 Billy Herman, CHC, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-2e45
LH--7 2b, 2.7 3b, 1 HR, 10 BB 418/477/576, 1.053 OPS
RH--6.8 2b, 2.8 3b, 1.1 HR, 10 BB 412/472/573, 1.044 OPS

Current 1935 Herman, 4.63m, CHC, Bats-R, 2b-2e23
LH--11.3 2b, 0.9 3b, 0.3 HR, 5 BB 414/446/549, .995 OPS
RH--11 2b, 0.9 3b, 0.3 HR, 5 BB 404/438/537, .975 OPS
Led League in Hits and Doubles.

1936 isn't any better than current 1935. 1937 has a few more walks, but the defense is bad. He's pretty consistent, no real different adds here.




1939 Lonny Frey, CIN, Bats-L, E Balance, 2b-2e22, 15 Game INJ Risk
LH--5.2 2b, 2.6 3b, 3.5 HR, 18 BB 337/453/570, 1.023 OPS
RH--5.2 2b, 2.6 3b, 3.5 HR, 18 BB 340/456/574, 1.030 OPS

Current 1940 Frey, 3.29m, CIN, Bats-L, E Balance, 2b-2e14, Steal: *4-6,12/- (18-13)
LH--3 2b, 1.1 3b, 1.6 HR, 17 BB 296/413/404, .817 OPS
RH--2.8 2b, 1.1 3b, 1.6 HR, 17 BB 291/409/397, .806 OPS

He's better in 1939, wouldn't be a bad help for the pre Reds.




1930 Tony Cuccinello, CIN, Bats-R, 1L Balance, 2b-3e32, 3b-3e37, SS-4e48
LH--4 2b, 0.2 3b, 3 HR, 24 BB 333/487/494, .981 OPS
RH--3.8 2b, 1.2 3b, 2.5 HR, 8 BB 328/384/466, .850 OPS

1931 Tony Cuccinello, CIN, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-3e27
LH--7.4 2b, 2.5 3b, 0 HR, 10 BB 363/428/491, .918 OPS
RH--7.2 2b, 2.5 3b, 0 HR, 10 BB 358/423/484, .907 OPS

Current 1937 Cuccinello, BSB, Bats-R, 1L Balance, 2b-3e19
LH--7.2 2b, 0.3 3b, 3.5 HR, 11 BB 291/369/481, .850 OPS
RH--6.8 2b, 0.3 3b, 3.1 HR, 11 BB 270/351/444, .795 OPS

He's a little better offensively in those two seasons, but his defense isn't good enough to get much use.





1920 Del Pratt, NYY, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-2e26, BULLETPROOF
LH--9.4 2b, 3.2 3b, 2.3 HR, 17 BB 271/393/523, .916 OPS
RH--7.6 2b, 1 3b, 0.2 HR, 6 BB 371/412/471, .883 OPS

1921 Del Pratt, BOS, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-2e31, 15 Game INJ Risk
LH--8 2b, 2.3 3b, 1.9 HR, 7 BB 374/420/556, .976 OPS
RH--7.8 2b, 2.2 3b, 1.8 HR, 7 BB 365/412/539, .950 OPS

Current 1913 Pratt, 3.34m, SLB, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-2e19, 1b-1e14, Steal: *4-6,12/- (18-13)
LH--6.2 2b, 2.8 3b, 0.3 HR, 4 BB 350/380/472, .852 OPS
RH--6.2 2b, 2.8 3b, 0.3 HR, 4 BB 345/375/467, .842 OPS

A little better than current card.





1923 Marty McManus, SLB, Bats-R, E Balance, 2b-1e36, 1b-4e16
LH--6.55 2.10 3.70 6 1 0.355 0.397 0.571 0.968
RH--6.40 2.10 3.70 6 1 0.349 0.391 0.563 0.954

1924 Marty McManus, SLB, Bats-R, 1R Balance, 2b-2e26
LH--0 2b, 1.8 3b, 2.4 HR, 20 BB 337/466/460, .926 OPS
RH--6.5 2b, 0.8 3b, 1.3 HR, 12 BB 413/483/537 1.020 OPS

1930 Marty McManus, DET, Bats-R, 1L Balance, 3b-2e17, 1b-4e25, SS-4e48, Steal: *4-6/-(17-13)
LH--8.6 2b, 1.5 3b, 0.4 HR, 16 BB 426/517/567, 1.084
RH--10.5 2b, 0 3b, 3 HR, 15 BB 349/445/561, 1.006

Current 1928 McManus, 2.59m, DET, Bats-R, E Balance, 3b-3e24, 1b-4e14, SS-3e32
LH--8.4 2b, 0.5 3b, 2.2 HR, 10 BB 316/386/480, .866 OPS
RH--8.2 2b, 0.5 3b, 2.2 HR, 10 BB 308/378/470, .848 OPS

The 1923 card is a 1 at 2b, 1924 card is good defensively and stronger vs RHP, and the 1930 card is a good OBP card and playable at 3b. I definitely think one of these would be a good improvement for McManus, who needs a better card.

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