18.3 Direction

Discussion for new cards to add; moderated by Rosie2167

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BDWard

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostThu Jul 05, 2018 9:13 pm

Rosie, I plan to suggest a few cards, but I haven't had time to complete my research and do the write ups. Plus, I don't have the over priced SOM card viewer. Is there a deadline for player suggestions?

Also, for the cards that are available online, I've noticed that many players rated 3L, 3R, 4L or 4R are better on the strong side of their cards than many players rated 5L or 5R or greater. Given such, it would appear that using 5L or 5R as the standard is somewhat arbitrary, as it is in no way an absolute measure of the strength of the strong side of the card, but rather is a measure of the strong side of the card only as compared to the weak side of the card. For example, Mike Heath and Cliff Johnson are both $.55 mil or less and are each 7L. However, no one would say that either is better against lefties than the rather modest Thurman Munson card $1.62 mil card, which is "only" a 3L. According to Diamond Dope, Heath and Johnson only create about 5.5 runs/27 outs against lefties in Minute Maid '05, while Munson creates about 70% more runs at 9.11 runs/27 outs. The difference may be even greater in "smallball" parks. Countless other examples can be given, but I think everyone understands the point.

While I understand the desire for platoon players, given that the rating for the strong side of a card only measures how it relates to the weak side of the card, and does not measure the strength of the card versus other similarly rated cards, I suggest that the standard for nominations be lowered to 3L and 3R. Not only may such yield equal or better platoon players, but unlike 9L or 9R players (such as Gates Brown) there will be a greater chance for success on the weak side of the card when HAL, with all his quirkiness, fails to substitute for the player when a change by the opposing manager causes use of the weak side of the card.
Last edited by BDWard on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Last Druid

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostFri Jul 06, 2018 1:29 pm

Here are the cards that the Barnstormers finalists have submitted so far...still a few pending

1964 Carl Yastrzemski
1923 Jimmy Johnston
1997 David Howard
1894 Bill Joyce​​


2017 Jose Ramirez is my pick.
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ratioman2

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostFri Jul 06, 2018 1:40 pm

Excellent pick.
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The Last Druid

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostFri Jul 06, 2018 4:21 pm

Thanks.
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visick

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostSun Jul 08, 2018 10:29 am

Still no justification for Yas and Howard.
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BDWard

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostSun Jul 08, 2018 11:12 am

1974 Buzz Capra, SP, Braves, 8R 16-8 2.28 1.138 Career bests in wins, ERA, WHIP, IP, SO, H9, HR9. In a league loaded with great pitchers such as future HOFers Gibson, Seaver, Sutton, Niekro and Carlton and All Stars John, Messersmith, Reuss, Matlack, Koosman, Rogers, Lonborg, Hooton, Dierker, Wilson, Ellis, Nolan, Richard & Marshall, Capra led the league in ERA and H9! No ATG card.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/731773/1670/1/70

1971 Don Wilson, SP, Astros, 5R 16-10 2.45 1.022 Career bests in ERA, WHIP, H9. Led league in H9. Had 2 career no hitters and another 8 inning no hitter when lifted for a pinch hitter. No ATG card.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/743023/1670/1/70

1983 Atlee Hammaker, SP, Giants, 6L 10-9 2.25 1.039 Led N.L. in ERA, WHIP, BB9 & SO/BB ratio. Career bests in ERA, WHIP, H9, SO9 & SO/BB ratio. No ATG card.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/834888/1680/1/80

1971 Tony Oliva RF, Twins, 5R .337 22 81 .369 .546 .915 Led A.L. in BA & SLG. Career highs in BA, OPS+. Near career highs in SLG, OPS & OBP. Oliva was headed for the HOF until knee injuries robbed him of his speed and made him a DH. Oliva is the only player in MLB history to win the batting title in his first two seasons. Oliva was an All Star right fielder in his first 8 big league seasons, even winning a gold glove. In a pitching dominated era, in his first 8 seasons before injuring his knee, he won 3 batting titles, finished second once, third 3 times and eighth once. Some may say that Oliva already has 3 cards, but why not give him what would arguably be his best card, one that destroys RHP?
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/739082/1670/1/70

1976 Bill Robinson OF, 3B, 1B, Pirates, 3L .303 21 64 .329 .534 .864 Career highs in SLG, OPS & OPs+. Near career highs in BA & OBP. A career journeyman and late bloomer, Robinson found a home with the Pirates, and was a valuable member of the team for 7+ seasons, playing multiple positions. 1 ATG card.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/740221/1670/1/70

1980 Mike Easler OF, Pirates 7R .338 21 74 .396 .583 .978 Career highs in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Near career highs in DO & RBI. A ten year minor leaguer, working off season jobs as a bellhop and on an assembly line to support his family, in 1980 the "Hit man" got his first significant playing time in the big leagues and took advantage of his opportunity. 1 ATG card.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/833358/1680/1/80

1966 Willie Stargell, LF, Pirates, 5R, DEF-1b-3e4/LF/RF-3(-3)16 .315 33 102 .381 .581 .962. Career high in BA.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/41487/1660/1/60

1985 Rich Gedman C, Red Sox 5R .295 18 80 .362 .484. .846. Career highs in HITS, BA, DO, RBI & OPS. This is easily the best season for the longtime BoSox backstop. 1 ATG card
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/834244/1680/1/80

For the players below, I don't have the SOM card viewer, so I don't know the balance rating for the strong side of the card, but based on their numbers, they appear worthy of consideration. Perhaps someone with the card viewer can let us know the balance rating.

1979 Oscar Gamble, OF/DH Texas & Yankees .358 19 64 .456 .609 1.065 in 327 PA. Career highs in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS & OPS+. In 235 ABs vs. RHPs, batted .370 16 57 .468 .617 1.085, and was respectable vs. lefties, with .282, 3 HRs in 39 AB. Probably a 5R or 6R.

1954 Smokey Burgess C, Reds .368 4 46 .432 .510 .942 in 392 PA. Career highs in BA, OBP, OPS & OPS+. Near career highs in H, DO, BB & SLG. In 266 ABs vs. RHP, batted .372 4 37 .444 .530 .975., including 22 DO. Despite his poor D, I can't believe that we all missed nominating Burgess during the recent ATG catcher addition. Probably a 7R-9R.

1977 Cliff Johnson C, 1B, OF, DH, Astros, Yankees .297 22 54 .407 .584 .991 Career highs in HR, OBP, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Near career high in BA. A career journeyman and late bloomer limited by poor D in his early career, Johnson usually hit well when given an opportunity to play. In 144 ABs vs. LHP, batted .354 13 30 .466 .701 1.167. Probably a 7L-9L.

1954 Ted Kluszewski, 1B, Reds .326 49 141 .407 .642 1.049. Led N.L. in HRs and RBI. Career highs in BA, HR, RBI, BB, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+ & TB. 2nd in MVP voting to HOFer Willie Mays. Batted .347 36 104 .437 .706 1.143 vs. RHP and a respectable .287 13 37 .340 .518 .858 vs. LHP. Probably a 4R or 5R card and would be a big improvement over Big Klu's chronically under performing $6 mil card.

1973 Steve Rogers, SP, Expos 10-5, 1.54 ERA, 1.060 WHIP, 6.2 H/9, 3.3 BB/9, in 134 IP. Made 17 starts for the '73 Expos. Career long Expo, who despite 13 years with some really bad Expo teams, starting in 1973, somehow managed to go 158-152 during his career. Very underrated pitcher. If I remember correctly, this Rogers card was a reverso card where he was really tough on LHBs.
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visick

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 11:53 am

Nice choices BDWard...

Still waiting on why we need a lesser Yas and the world famous David Howard...
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Rosie2167

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 12:43 pm

visick wrote:Nice choices BDWard...

Still waiting on why we need a lesser Yas and the world famous David Howard...

While it would be nice to learn why these guys/years were picked IMO there is no need to justify them. They were earned. Maybe Howard is someone's uncle or cousin or they met him somewhere and he was a great guy and maybe the guy that picked Yaz saw him play that year.

My point is you place Hi in the toughest tournament in SOM and you get to pick some cards, any cards.
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ratioman2

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 1:12 pm

Labratory had three choices, so Yaz and Howard (and Johnson) were his.
Cristano has 5 choices which we haven't seen yet.
Last edited by ratioman2 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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visick

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Re: 18.3 Direction

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 1:24 pm

I get it Rosie...sorta :roll:

But when we already have the best Yas card, this card makes no sense.

Maybe I'm looking at adding cards the wrong way. When I vote, I truly want to make teams better OR make ATG better.
I vote for cards that I'll actually use. As a kid growing up in NY, I saw Willie Mays as a Met in 1973. I love Mays, but don't wanna add his 1973 card. I'll remember Mays by his late 50's, early 60's cards.

And David Howard "earning" a spot in ATG GREATS, again makes no sense.

I'm not voting for a guy I saw play in a year where his #'s are average or I'm not voting for a guy I met in a bathroom who played in the major leagues, peeing next to me.
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