Summer - Winter Keeper League - RULE CHANGES?

The 2022 cardset was an exciting one for the 3 teams that stockpiled high value players. It was, however, boring and a waste of money for the other 9 teams. See the comparison of salaries vs. wins at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =247515018

I propose that we amend the rules to make the league more competitive, as follows:
- Salary cap of $130 mil
- Salary floor of $100 mil

I am also open to other suggestions as to how to make the game more enjoyable for all.

What do you think?

My active roster was at 87M last season. What if I cannot reach 100M after the draft? What happens then?

The 2022 cardset was an exciting one for the 3 teams that stockpiled high value players. It was, however, boring and a waste of money for the other 9 teams. See the comparison of salaries vs. wins at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =247515018

I propose that we amend the rules to make the league more competitive, as follows:
- Salary cap of $130 mil
- Salary floor of $100 mil

I am also open to other suggestions as to how to make the game more enjoyable for all.

What do you think?

My active roster was at 87M last season. What if I cannot reach 100M after the draft? What happens then?

Tanking has not been an issue in this league, however I've seen managers intentionally limit their rosters in other leagues to improve their draft positions.

My expectation is that if higher-salary players were scattered about on different squads, then it would not be a problem for everybody to be at or above a reasonable salary floor.

Some managers truly enjoy hunting for prospects, some only want seasoned pros, and others look to those not yet in MLB or MiLB. I wonder if some compromise between those views would work?

Today we have 40 on the active roster plus up to 10 prospects, for a total of 50.

Instead, what if we had 35 or 40 players and you get to choose how many are carded and how many are not? And further, what if it did not matter if they had already signed with an MLB team? In the Ted Lasso league, for example, I drafted Yamamoto last year.

I believe that a wide variety of general manager styles could fit within those limits. Thoughts?

Some managers truly enjoy hunting for prospects, some only want seasoned pros, and others look to those not yet in MLB or MiLB. I wonder if some compromise between those views would work?

Today we have 40 on the active roster plus up to 10 prospects, for a total of 50.

Instead, what if we had 35 or 40 players and you get to choose how many are carded and how many are not? And further, what if it did not matter if they had already signed with an MLB team? In the Ted Lasso league, for example, I drafted Yamamoto last year.

I believe that a wide variety of general manager styles could fit within those limits. Thoughts?

I think this kind of noodling is how we arrive at the best options for rule changes.

I would also encourage the league and observers to weigh in with ideas for how to limit the asymmetrical trades I complain about. I'll do some mining in our ILC topic to find these kinds of trades going back a few years and maybe even do some comparison of how the superstar fares for a few years after the trade compared to how the players traded for them do.

I would also encourage the league and observers to weigh in with ideas for how to limit the asymmetrical trades I complain about.

I'll do some mining in our ILC topic to find these kinds of trades going back several years....

Well, there's data to find. But it is not conclusive in my opinion nor easy to imagine policing. Even in hindsight, it is not obvious to me how to police asymmetrical trades involving Harper or Betts or #1s, etc.

Nevertheless, if I focus only on asymmetrical trades involving star players and #1 picks, there are many to find over the years.

JF and Lakeview make the most trades. Most of their trades are NOT asymmetrical involving star players and #1 picks. A former manager, sknsfan, also made some asymmetrical trades. Our commish has made a couple.

In full disclosure, I (Liverpool) have made anomalous trades. Though my trades are a different pattern. I've traded Roy Halladay, King Felix, and Andrew Benintendi (when he was still a highly regarded prospect) for two prospect #1s each. In retrospect, I think they all worked in my favor, especially Felix. But, I did not know that would happen when I made the trades. And, my drafted prospects do NOT all turn into stars or even MLB starters. Especially the prospect pitchers I've drafted; who have almost all washed out before making it to MLB.

Generally, established stars continue playing at a high level for some number of years.

Here are the asymmetrical trades I found:

2013 TCochran - Pujols: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 5#p5404913

2013 JF - FA #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 3#p5433788

2013 JF - Prospect #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 1#p5434259

2013 JF - Kenley Jansen: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 9#p5446345

2014 JF - Yu Darvish and two #1s: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 3#p5507515

2015 JF - Scherzer: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... c#p5515064

2015 JF - Harper and Prospect #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 4#p5546394

2017 Lakeview - Sonny Gray: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 5#p5616108

2018 JF - Prospect #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... e#p5683473

2018 Lakeview - FA #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... e#p5681219

2019 Lakeview - Two #1s: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... d#p5718599

2019 Lakeview - FA #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... d#p5718488

2019 Lakeview - Mookie Betts: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 0#p5733772

2020 Lakeview - Supp #1 (1st overall): https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 0#p5734073

2020 JF - Prospect #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... f#p5767205

2021 Lakeview - Prospect #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... d#p5787001

2022 Lakeview - Prospect #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... 0#p5856287

2022 JF - Prospect #1: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... c#p5834530

2023 Lakeview - Edwin Diaz: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... b#p5894250

2023 TCochran - Aaron Judge: https://forum-365.strat-o-matic.com/com ... a#p5901672

Results updated at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=3

Congrats to lakeviewdave on another title. He and the other finalist, jflatour99, have won 15 of the last 18 titles.

And although JF lost this one, he still has an amazing average of 98.6 wins per season over his 27 seasons in the league (.609). Wow!

See draft of proposed new model rule set at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1655081356

Key elements include:

- 24 to 28 players active in game engine
- With salary cap of $130 mil
- And salary floor of $100 mil

- 35 players on full roster, including prospects
- Draft any player (MLB/MiLB, college, foreign) to full roster
- Prior to FA draft, drop 7 to 10 from full roster
- 2-round supplemental draft between seasons

Please review and comment here.

Thanks!

Terry

See draft of proposed new model rule set at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1655081356

Key elements include:

- 24 to 28 players active in game engine
- With salary cap of $130 mil
- And salary floor of $100 mil

- 35 players on full roster, including prospects
- Draft any player (MLB/MiLB, college, foreign) to full roster
- Prior to FA draft, drop 7 to 10 from full roster
- 2-round supplemental draft between seasons

Please review and comment here.

Thanks!

Terry

I'm open to trying a change. But, I think my remarks and unscientific research with asymmetrical trades and you pointing out the last 15 out of 18 championships being won by the two teams with 90% of the trades I found is representative of ... something significant?

Whether or not it's a problem, whether or not it can be fixed, whether the changes being suggested are "the fix" are good questions - I can't answer by myself.

In the course of doing my job, I provide evaluations, cite sources, incorporate collaboration, 3rd party experts, industry best practices, and examples of what others have done in preparation for the plan and resource investment. This is all part of the justification.

An element of the justification is how the plan and investment address the problem and objective. It is a specific and formal traceability. "This does that which fixes thus and so providing XYZ outcome."

In looking at the highlights of the changes....

A

- 24 to 28 players active in game engine
- With salary cap of $130 mil
- And salary floor of $100 mil

For A, the $ cap stops $150M - $160M teams and that correlates to the overstocking of rosters with excess high value talent and maybe the asymmetrical trades.

B

- 35 players on full roster, including prospects
- Draft any player (MLB/MiLB, college, foreign) to full roster
- Prior to FA draft, drop 7 to 10 from full roster
- 2-round supplemental draft between seasons

B is less obvious to me. Every team will have fewer players which reduces roster overstocking. But the extra players being dropped from rosters will be the secondary prospects (prospects and younger veterans who haven't panned out yet or maybe had injuries) AND the least valuable, excess bench and platoon substitutes / back end bullpen.

Teams will keep their highest value talent if they can stay under the $130M cap.

There's a good case for A and it makes sense. I don't understand how B helps.

The big concern (assuming any of this is a concern; maybe it really isn't) is the winning JF and Lakeview achieve. They certainly deserve to win, they have the best teams. They make the most effort to build the best teams. Notably with careful analysis of current real life performance in planning their "next year's teams" and frequent trades. A small # of their trades (10%?) involve star players and #1 draft picks as noted. When they are making the most trades, even 10% of them being asymmetrical stands out from the rest of the managers who make fewer trades.

Trying to police trades is something I can't fathom for SWKL. I know how MLB tries to police trades and they actually do ok. But, they have an office and staff dedicated to just that. There are other things MLB doesn't police so well historically like steroids and collusion. SWKL isn't MLB and we don't have dedicated staff in an office.

For the proposed rules, here are my comments:

1. Salary floor could be lower, if a team is loading up on prospects, may be hard to reach $100, perhaps see how a couple of years go before implementing a floor? If not, perhaps assign a dollar value to a prospect? Or limit the number of non-carded players on team?

2. For FA draft, instead of 1hr clock, go to 1hr blocks of time as some leagues, can get 1+ rounds/day completed then. Times posted evening before. With 1hr clock, if one does not check in, could get skipped by multiple picks. Given when this league drafts (summer) more susceptible to vacations, etc.

Key elements include: Rules Changes - Thoughts from a grumpy old man.

- 24 to 28 players active in game engine - We should be able to play a 28 player roster from game #1. NO waiting until game #132 to add two players when rosters freeze at game #141 makes it non helpful.
- With salary cap of $130 mil - Really don't know if will help or not.
- And salary floor of $100 mil - Is this to keep from sandbagging for draft position?

- 35 players on full roster, including prospects - If you are going to add the prospects you need to go to 40 total Roster
- Draft any player (MLB/MiLB, college, foreign) to full roster - NO Like - Carded Players only - I don't have time to sit around and study every HS, College, Japan players for future teams
- Prior to FA draft, drop 7 to 10 from full roster - Drop 10 - 12
- 2-round supplemental draft between seasons - OK
- 2 or 3 round Prospect Draft needs to be reinstated - I traded players this past season to acquire prospects that would have cards in 2023 and help build my team for the future...taking that away and making it part of the original draft only hurts the bottom dwellers like me.

Coach