Moneyball Baseball League Chat

I've got a possible solution, see what you guys think. We change the prospect eligibility clause from:

Sec 3.03 Prospect Eligibility: Prospects are defined as any player who has signed a contract with an MLB organization but who has no MLB experience prior to the start of the current MLB season. [Note, this means that players with no MLB experience prior to the 2020 MLB season, but who are carded in the SOM 2020 season, are still considered prospects and not free agents for the purpose of our annual prospect draft]. to:

Sec 3.03 Prospect Eligibility: Prospects are defined as any player who has signed a contract with an MLB organization but who has no MLB experience prior to the start of the upcoming MLB season.

This would return prospects to the way they were meant to be. The prospect draft wasn't designed to provide us with players who are immediately making the team the moment they are drafted. If we made this change, then any player whose first playing time was in 2020 would be a free agent and not considered a prospect for the purpose of our annual prospect draft as the current rule calls for.

I agree with this. The parenthetical note is confusing, so I will remove it. Any player, including rookies, who played in 2020 will be a free agent. The prospect draft will take place after the free agent signing period.

Philip

The deadline for cutting and promoting players is fast approaching on Monday. If you haven't already done so, please cut any player you wish to release, and promote any prospects you wish to promote.

I will be creating a thread call "Moneyball Baseball Free Agent Signings". I will post a list of carded players in 2020 who are free agents. Each team will bid on a free agent in reverse order of 2020 cumulative season records. There will be four players bid upon at any given time. Once a player is signed, the next team in the order will bid on a free agent and so on until all rosters have 40 active players. A contract is considered signed if no other team bids on that player for 24 hours.

Philip

Phil, a question. If one of my prospects is carded before their 3 years is up I can delay promoting them to my 40 man right?

If one of my prospects is carded before their 3 years is up I can delay promoting them to my 40 man right?

That is correct. Like any good billionaire, you should game your prospects to stretch out your ownership over them for as long as possible.

srh1200 wrote:
I am so confused about the timing of seasons and contracts and prospect draft. And on the timing of how extensions must be made a season in advance or we lose players to free agency? I look at the spreadsheets on Google Sheets and I see salary info for 2021. If there's an FA in 2021, when do I lose the player? Phil has tried to re-explain things to me...am I the only one who can't keep it straight?


In the case of Greinke and Ottavino, yes you lose them. You only signed them through the 2020 card season. I believe you lose Sano too, because he's Arb3, so you pay him whatever his 2020 cards costs, then he's FA in 2021. You had a chance to extend him for 5 years , or Arb him, after our initial draft. Looks like you chose Arb. If I'm wrong on Sano, someone correct me.

The order of things: (1) we are dropping any rostered players to make room for FA signings, and promoting any prospects whose time is up or who we want to use in the upcoming season.

(2) On Dec. 1 I will post a list of free agents. We’ll have the month to research and plan for the winter meetings. It would be a good time for trades as well.

(3) In January we will have free agent signings. Any player who had MLB experience prior to the 2020 season is eligible. Any player without MLB experience prior to 2020 is a prospect and is ineligible.

(4) in February we will have the prospect draft.

(5) After the prospect draft until March 31st you have to offer contracts to any pre-arb and arb eligible players for the 2021 season. The contract extension rules apply here. Any player that is pre-arb or arb eligible will be automatically resigned at the appropriate salary unless you cut him or take him to arbitration.

4 posts above your last one you said this:

I agree with this. The parenthetical note is confusing, so I will remove it. Any player, including rookies, who played in 2020 will be a free agent. The prospect draft will take place after the free agent signing period.

Philip


so now I'm confused do guys that were rookies in the 2020 season count as free agents (as that post suggests) or not (as your last post states)

last post states: Any player who had MLB experience prior to the 2020 season is eligible. Any player without MLB experience prior to 2020 is a prospect and is ineligible.


thanks,

Paul

4 posts above your last one you said this:

I agree with this. The parenthetical note is confusing, so I will remove it. Any player, including rookies, who played in 2020 will be a free agent. The prospect draft will take place after the free agent signing period.

Philip


so now I'm confused do guys that were rookies in the 2020 season count as free agents (as that post suggests) or not (as your last post states)

last post states: Any player who had MLB experience prior to the 2020 season is eligible. Any player without MLB experience prior to 2020 is a prospect and is ineligible.


thanks,

Paul

That has to be a mistake or we would be back to the original rule on free agent eligibility.

Sect. 3.3 Prospect Eligibility:

Prospects are defined as any player who has signed a contract with an MLB organization but who has no MLB experience prior to the start of the current MLB season [Note, this means that players with no MLB experience prior to the 2020 MLB season, but who are carded in the SOM 2020 season, are still considered prospects and not free agents for the purpose of our annual prospect draft]

Section 10.2 Free Agent Eligibility:

Unsigned carded players from the previous SOM 365 season [ie. 2019 card season], and players with more than 6 years of service time and an expiring contract, are eligible for free agency. In addition, MLB players who were uncarded the previous SOM 365 season [ie. 2019 card season], and who had at least 50 at bats or 30 innings pitched during the current MLB season [ie. 2020 MLB season], will be eligible for free agency. [Note, this means that players with no MLB experience prior to the 2020 MLB season, but who are carded in the SOM 2020 season, are still considered prospects and not free agents for the purpose of our annual prospect draft].

When I read these two rules I wonder what I was thinking at the time. I think I was trying to prevent the signing of players who were likely to be uncarded in the upcoming SOM season. The obvious solution is to drop the parenthetical references in both rules and change the word “current “ to “upcoming “ in Section 3.03. This would mean that anyone who played in 2020 is a free agent even if it was their rookie season. Dropping the qualifying requirements due to the COVID shortened season are the complicating factor here.

If this is the correct interpretation then we may want to change the prospect rules to increase the number of prospects drafted each year, and to extend the time they can be held as prospects. As it stands we are only drafting 36 prospects a year, leaving a ton of potential rookie free agents in future signing periods. I was thinking of increasing the draft to five rounds and increasing the holding period to five years. Thoughts?

Philip

When I read these two rules I wonder what I was thinking at the time. I think I was trying to prevent the signing of players who were likely to be uncarded in the upcoming SOM season. The obvious solution is to drop the parenthetical references in both rules and change the word “current “ to “upcoming “ in Section 3.03. This would mean that anyone who played in 2020 is a free agent even if it was their rookie season. Dropping the qualifying requirements due to the COVID shortened season are the complicating factor here.

If this is the correct interpretation then we may want to change the prospect rules to increase the number of prospects drafted each year, and to extend the time they can be held as prospects. As it stands we are only drafting 36 prospects a year, leaving a ton of potential rookie free agents in future signing periods. I was thinking of increasing the draft to five rounds and increasing the holding period to five years. Thoughts?

Philip

I can understand now why the AB/IP qualifiers were in place. Couple of examples: Mountcastle (126 AB) and Pache (4 AB). To me, it makes sense that Mountcastle should be FA because he'll surely be carded for 2020, Pache a prospect because, at least normally, he'd never have a 2020 card, which is the result you'd get (and want) with the qualifiers.

Pitcher example, Singer (64 IP) and Clarke (6 IP). Singer FA, Clarke prospect for the same reasoning above. The qualifiers make sense to me, whether prorated for this year or not.

A guy like Graterol, uncarded in '19 but had 10 IP, is a free agent, correct?

I agree that the prospect draft should go at least to 4 rounds, and I probably wouldn't argue with 5. And the related prospect rules amended to adjust for increased prospects as well.

When I read these two rules I wonder what I was thinking at the time. I think I was trying to prevent the signing of players who were likely to be uncarded in the upcoming SOM season. The obvious solution is to drop the parenthetical references in both rules and change the word “current “ to “upcoming “ in Section 3.03. This would mean that anyone who played in 2020 is a free agent even if it was their rookie season. Dropping the qualifying requirements due to the COVID shortened season are the complicating factor here.

If this is the correct interpretation then we may want to change the prospect rules to increase the number of prospects drafted each year, and to extend the time they can be held as prospects. As it stands we are only drafting 36 prospects a year, leaving a ton of potential rookie free agents in future signing periods. I was thinking of increasing the draft to five rounds and increasing the holding period to five years. Thoughts?

Philip

I can understand now why the AB/IP qualifiers were in place. Couple of examples: Mountcastle (126 AB) and Pache (4 AB). To me, it makes sense that Mountcastle should be FA because he'll surely be carded for 2020, Pache a prospect because, at least normally, he'd never have a 2020 card, which is the result you'd get (and want) with the qualifiers.

Pitcher example, Singer (64 IP) and Clarke (6 IP). Singer FA, Clarke prospect for the same reasoning above. The qualifiers make sense to me, whether prorated for this year or not.

A guy like Graterol, uncarded in '19 but had 10 IP, is a free agent, correct?

I agree that the prospect draft should go at least to 4 rounds, and I probably wouldn't argue with 5. And the related prospect rules amended to adjust for increased prospects as well.

Yeah there's a problem either way you do it. If the eligibility change for prospects is adopted, than anyone with playing time in 2020 is a FA. What then happens with the status of a player like Pache if no one signs him as a free agent? Does he remain in limbo until the next free agency opportunity? He won't be a prospect under the new rule. However there's also a problem if you apply the AB/IP qualifiers. It's fine for Mountcastle (definite card) or Pache (definite no card) but what about someone with around 30-49 AB. If they are prospects and are drafted and end up with a card, we're back to the problem of already having our 40 man rosters in place. There may not be a perfect solution to this. We may have to just pick one method and go with it for this 1st go round.
I'm ok with upping the prospect count, probably would prefer 4 to try initially.